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Does Gladwell's 10,000 Hour Rule Apply to Numismatics?
ilmcoins
Posts: 525 ✭✭✭✭
There are many experts here on this forum, thus, the reason many of us return.
You can become an expert in a variety of areas in Numismatics. I believe some areas can be conquered quicker than others.
When it comes to being a generally accepted expert in Numismatics would you subscribe to Malcolm Gladwell's theory in Outliers that it takes at least 10,000 hours of hands on experience to reach that level?
Obviously, someone can spend that long working on something and be no smarter than when they started, but, that should typically be an exception to this principle.
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Yes, I believe that.
I have spent over 10,000 hours in two professions. Nature Photography and Error Coins
I have spent over 5000 hours in a couple of odd hobbies, trying to get to 10 grand. Kayak Fishing and Gold Mining.
I think so. I joined these forums in in 2006 with very little information and got schooled on 2 eBay purchases.
Now, I know what I'm doing much more and ask questions less. Recently, I also saw something special in this error coin which Fred said was real. It felt like I had progressed a lot seeing something that Fred saw but other long time collectors didn't.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1017639/1993-full-brockage-error-cent#latest
What constitutes an expert?
I have worked the building trades the last 20+/- years, I am by no means an expert.
Expert at anything for that matter.
Thinking you are an expert, simply to me, means you have much to learn...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
10,000 Hours is less than 5 years of 8 hour days 5 days per week.
Not that long of a time.
I have spent 66,380 hours in my profession, just with my current employer, longer since starting my profession.
Therefore [66,380/10,000 = 6.638] I am almost seven times an expert in my field.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Sure I've got over 10K each in coins and computers, but under 5K in psychology.
OTOH, I've forgotten more than I ever knew
Superb question. Gladwell's idea is rough, but transfers to many aspects of life. I coach distance runners, and it is quite accurate there. In my previous life as a competitive shooter, it also transferred well. Hard now to quantify the 'hours' I spend . . .but I believe it is a true philosophy.
Also . . . . several years ago a random golfer was going to try Gladwell's philosophy and attempt to qualify for the PGS Tour. Anyone hear how it turned out ??????
Drunner
Natural talent and ability plays a part for sure!!
A member wrote that 10,000 Hours is less than 5 years of 8 hour days 5 days per week.
This may be good if you specialize in a narrow field of endeavor. I've never interacted with a truly expert numismatist - the field is too big and segmented. I'm very suspect of any one who thinks they are.
Taking my field for example, how is it possible for any counterfeits to get past a team of "Expert" Authenticators'?
I believe that you should always be in a position to learn more. I have been in real estate for a long time but I learn something new every day.
Using the word "expert" may or may not be right here. I consider you an expert even if you do 't label yourself one.
If a court case came up, I could see you as an expert witness!
Numismatics is a very large field of study.
A person asserting their numismatic expertise needs to specify, with reasonable precision, the area of coins that they specialize in. The field is far too large to know all things.
The real genuine experts tend to be recognized by their peers without too much personal promotion of their knowledge and skills.
Our generation (and the last) has seen some acknowledged experts exposed as having feet of clay.
As a practical matter, some folks make their own personal fortunes by successful coin trading, and you can't just sneeze at their success either.
Numismatic expertise cannot be readily measured by the simple passage of time.
Gladwell took someone else's research out of context and reached (jumped?) to a conclusion the information did not necessarily support.
The 10,000 hours was the average number of hours a certain group of violinists had practiced by the time they were 20 years old.
There are far too many variables to claim with accuracy how many hours of practice makes one competent, never mind expert.
in a word, no.
"Expert" is essentially an ill-defined, meaningless term.
Thanks. I will concede that many of us can be considered as experts-in-training. I also learn something almost every day.
BTW, I will NEVER EVER even think about being an "expert" witness again! The pay is good but during the deposition by the opposition lawyers, they can ask you anything about anything in your entire life. I got even for the torture I endured from them. At the trial, during my testimony, I made the lead lawyer look like an idiot. They lost their case and I was on the winning side.
Take a look at this Forum - You can become a Master Collector just by repeating "Amazing, "Nice Coin", or something similar 10,000 times. Sorry, but I don't consider that a Master Collector.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
In my humble non numismatic qualified opinion, if you had an endless supply of coins to handle each day (night) or a few hours per week... certainly feasible within a series or two.
Watching dealers interact with each other at the Dalton Show you could see them handling hundreds a coins per day.
I think that is the key.
Question is where to find an endless supply of coins in your series.
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@Moxie15 has the right of it - the 10,000 hour number is bunk.
Even if it were true, there is a vast difference between 10,000 hours and 1 hour 10,000 times such as many of our error finders represent.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
this thread caused me to look around on the internet a little, here's a story and what I learned. first the facts: Gladwell did not originate the 10,000 hour rule, he expounded on it in a book published in 2018. the originator of the idea is credited to K. Anders Ericsson who did the original research with two colleagues and released their results in 1993.
as RogerB might say, we should get the facts right and give credit where credit is due.
I won't go into what little I know about the whole concept and the study that results came from, nor do I care to debate why it is or isn't valid, but I do have an interesting story.
When I first started to work full time as a Machinist around 1973-74 I had only some basic shop skills and good mechanical aptitude to start out with. I worked for a small company in the Greater Cleveland area which at the time was a leader in industry and the type of work I was learning was highly needed. After almost a year I had progressed fairly well and could set-up/operate/inspect most of the machines in our shop. Work slowed so I decided to put in some applications to see if I could find a better job. Much to my surprise, the general rule for employment was 5-years experience, that was the requirement at almost every shop I applied at.
Evidently the "theory" of 10,000 hours had already been figured out, at least in the machining industry in Cleveland, Ohio in 1974. Think about it --- 40 hours a week for 52 weeks x 5 years is a little over 10,000 hours. I think there is always plenty in any skill that can always be learned, but this "rule" is sort of a general rule for how long it takes to be proficient and I think it's probably a good one. The thing with the rule when applied to Numismatics is simple, how long will it take someone to actually log that much time in the study of coins??
the only thing I know for sure from all this: it isn't Gladwell's rule.
I find many 'rules' to be general assessments and certainly not conforming to the definition of 'rule'. In numismatics, someone termed 'expert' would likely have a high degree of skill in a specific area.... i.e. coin types, process issues such as errors and other segments of the field. This applies to most fields, be it work or sports or other areas. Generally, an expert is someone more skilled in a field than I am...
A person I would consult for opinions or guidance....and I have also noted that experts frequently make mistakes...sometimes due to rapid progress in the technology, or sometimes due to their own sense of self importance. I am capable of advising in several fields, I do not consider myself expert in any.....just more well versed than those who have not spent as much time - yet - as I have in a particular pursuit. Cheers, RickO
Most good specialized numismatic books have well over 10,000 hours of collecting, research, and eventually writing and publication. In some cases probably triple that number.
I have stumbled around blindly for years, and the ANA grading class opened my eyes a bit.
It's a treasure hunt and I find grading is almost an addiction.
For me going forward, it is more important to invest the time and money into education and buying coins that help me understand the variables of strike/date/mint relationship in a particular series.
My route will probably take a more raw/submit, ANACS/NGC crack and cross, PCGS centric focus on AU/MS common dates.... vs a Key date label tell me what you are approach. Though I see no issue with either approach.
I will let you know how it goes... oh ... in about 5 to 10 years.
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