PCI sample: rare?

Sandman70gt

I have almost zero knowledge of PCI samples as I only have been collecting pcgs samples
Bought off ebay. Can someone tell me more about it? Rare at all? Value?
I really should invest in a sample book.

ECHOES

Cool

JBK

I'd be curious to know if they are rare.

As I recall, PCI went through a series of owners, with the last one getting in serious legal trouble. I got one of his sample slabs before the legal issues brought him down. If I can find it I will post a picture.

1Bufffan

1944-S seems to be a common year for sample slabbed coins as giveaways by PCI at shows around the coutry some are more popular than others but $12 to $14 seems to be the value now. The Hallmark Sample slabs which precedded PCI can cost more than a Hundred so look out for those.

astrorat

These are not rare. When they sell on eBay, they max out at about $15-20.

Yes, you should invest in David Schwager's books on Sample Slabs. It's a nice (and growing) resource.

MWallace

@astrorat said:
These are not rare. When they sell on eBay, they max out at about $15-20.

Yes, you should invest in David Schwager's books on Sample Slabs. It's a nice (and growing) resource.

The book is also available in digital format at a very reasonable price.

MWallace

Sandman70gt

Thanks for the comments

Timbuk3

Interesting, thank you all for sharing !!!

BStrauss3

@JBK said:
I'd be curious to know if they are rare.

As I recall, PCI went through a series of owners, with the last one getting in serious legal trouble. I got one of his sample slabs before the legal issues brought him down. If I can find it I will post a picture.

Last but 3...

Roughly

Photo Certified Coin Inc - large photoslab
Hallmark goes under, PCI buys the slab assets (the Hallmark mold for the shell has HALLMARK in the top flat area, PCIs do not). Same shell is still in use today...

PCI goes through several iterations of the green label - first generation (10 digit cert#s, two codes) are still pretty fair grading even today.

Brian Beardsly buys PCI, which is by now well into the "glories" of market grading. Start of the solid gold box era.

1st attempt at the PCI signature series. Was well regarded until they skipped the cumbersome step of actually having to send the coins to the experts for signature... also stopped paying the experts, but being generous, could have been a simple oversight in the turmoil of: Brian dies and his widow sells PCI.

I believe there was a brief attempt to restore PCI to its former glory, which failed and a 2nd attempt at the PCI signature series - I believe the samples were issued, an advert was taken out in the trade press (and an advert the next month denying the experts had anything to do with the service)... (@mwallace's example above).

The assets pass to David Lawrence Rare Coins who starts, runs and folds Dominion Grading.

Another sale and the assets end up with Anthony Delauniversita (sp?) who runs PCI as a fraudulent "TPG" selling over graded coins to widows and orphans. Gets nailed with and convicted of RICO.

Assets pass (2x, 3x)... we have the "bullet" train label (first the 2011.95/nnnnn version then the 2012.02/nnnnn version. AFAIK it's still alive, but maybe not - I think the web site went dark in the last couple months.

Somewhere in there (I'd have to look up the sequence), somebody created fake (or throwback) green labels to either trade off (or recover) the former glory of PCI. You can tell these because the box on the reverse is just blobs, while on the genuine green labels, it's actually microprinted PCI PCI PCI PCI...

ricko

I first saw one of those in the late nineties at a coin show in the PNW.... I had no idea what PCI was and actually asked about it on here. It was not well thought of at that time. Cheers, RickO

Luxor

Cool sample. IMO Hallmark and the 10 digit serial # PCI holders were the two best and most consistent grading services out there.

JBK

@BStrauss3 said:.

Another sale and the assets end up with Anthony Delauniversita (sp?) who runs PCI as a fraudulent "TPG" selling over graded coins to widows and orphans. Gets nailed with and convicted of RICO.

I am pretty sure my sample slab is from these guys. I had written them to ask if they would produce sample/ promotional slabs to order. and he said at the moment they were busy with their own stuff. I think they were basically self-slabbers. But, he did send me sample slab.

Insider2

@BStrauss3 said:

@JBK said:
I'd be curious to know if they are rare.

As I recall, PCI went through a series of owners, with the last one getting in serious legal trouble. I got one of his sample slabs before the legal issues brought him down. If I can find it I will post a picture.

Last but 3...

Roughly

Photo Certified Coin Inc - large photoslab
Hallmark goes under, PCI buys the slab assets (the Hallmark mold for the shell has HALLMARK in the top flat area, PCIs do not). Same shell is still in use today...

PCI goes through several iterations of the green label - first generation (10 digit cert#s, two codes) are still pretty fair grading even today. [PCI adds the red label for problem coins and a blue label for foreign]

Brian Beardsly buys PCI, which is by now well into the "glories" of market grading. Start of the solid gold box era.

1st attempt at the PCI signature series. Was well regarded until they skipped the cumbersome step of actually having to send the coins to the experts for signature... [This must have happened after I left. Additionally, when I was hired back in the late '90's I don't recall the Signature Series being used.] also stopped paying the experts, but being generous, could have been a simple oversight in the turmoil of: Brian dies and his widow sells PCI.

I believe there was a brief attempt to restore PCI to its former glory, which failed and a 2nd attempt at the PCI signature series - I believe the samples were issued, an advert was taken out in the trade press (and an advert the next month denying the experts had anything to do with the service)... (@mwallace's example above).

The assets pass to David Lawrence Rare Coins who starts, runs and folds Dominion Grading.

Another sale and the assets end up with Anthony Delauniversita (sp?) who runs PCI as a fraudulent "TPG" selling over graded coins to widows and orphans. Gets nailed with and convicted of RICO.

Assets pass (2x, 3x)... we have the "bullet" train label (first the 2011.95/nnnnn version then the 2012.02/nnnnn version. AFAIK it's still alive, but maybe not - I think the web site went dark in the last couple months.

Somewhere in there (I'd have to look up the sequence), somebody created fake (or throwback) green labels to either trade off (or recover) the former glory of PCI. You can tell these because the box on the reverse is just blobs, while on the genuine green labels, it's actually microprinted PCI PCI PCI PCI...

I worked at PCI in the 1990's. Full time 1990 to '94 or '95 then part time around '97 - '98 when I was hired by another service. None of that stuff mentioned about the Signature Series took place while I worked there. I was let go the first time during the time Larry Briggs was in negotiations to buy into PCI. Their excuse was I refused to drive an old truck to a convention far away. They also lost faith in my authentication skills because I condemned the first BU 1896 Micro "O" Morgan dollar I ever saw as a counterfeit while the Morgan dollar experts claimed I was nuts! The coin went out as genuine.

I'll add some things to the post above. I have several PCI samples. We did them for different shows. I don't recall if we had a Signature Series sample prepared.

LJenkins11

Sample slabs, and slabs in general, are developing into quite the niche market as evident by some recent auctions. I don't collect slabs but I can see the appeal.

BStrauss3

Some links...

Ad from The Numismatist (thanks to the NNP for my copies of The Numismatist) selling samples of the PhotoSlab:

2015 conviction for 2010/2011 fraud: https://coinweek.com/coin-clubs/coin-dealer-pci-hit-for-nearly-2-million-under-federal-racketeering-laws/ - Anthony J. Delluniversita

Example of the "2012.02" bullet train label: http://coinauctionshelp.com/PCI_TPGS.html

**PCI Signature - **

go around #1 (1996, but the threads are from 2002): https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/118233/new-pci-label/p1

Conder101's comment (save you having to click to the old thread):

That is an older slab. It was what PCI called their Signature series where for a extra fee the coin would be examined by a recognized expert in that particular series. For the older series attrigutions would be provided as well. I'm not sure of the actual starting date but it was circa 1996. Less than two months after the service began several of their experts started running advertisments in the trade papers (coin World etc.) stating that effective immediately they were no longer connected in any way with PCI. When I asked some of them what happened they explained that PCI was holdering the coins and placing their signatures on them but they were not sending the coins to them for examination! The experts never saw the coins being shiped out with their signatures (and reputaions) on them. The signature series slab almost immediately died. Total production time was about two months and since is was only part of their submittals, total slab production was probably lss than 15,000 slabs. Most of which have probably been cracked out.

1997 ad from The Numismatist:

So, yes, @Insider2, it looks like it died just before you rejoined!

go around #2 (2007): https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/581316/pcis-new-edge-view-holders-signature-series (this is the one that @MWallace found, above)

Finally, an add from The Numismatist describing the Hallmark purchase:

JohnF

This reminds me of a funny expression my father had. "The coin is R7, but the buyer is R8."

Could be true here (or not) but the point is always that rarity is meaningless without demand.

Hemispherical

Case Law on Malvino v. Delluniversita

CONCLUSION
For the reasons stated above: • On the claim for common law fraud, Plaintiff is entitled to recover from PCI and PCA, jointly and severally, the sum of $536,934.00 for economic damages along with pre and post-judgment interest, and court costs of $1,332.45 and may hold Anthony personally liable for these amounts. Plaintiff is also entitled to recover an additional $536,934.00 for exemplary damages—$268,457.00 from PCI and $268,934.00 from PCA—along with post-judgment interest and may hold Anthony personally liable for these amounts. • On the claim for negligent misrepresentation, Plaintiff is entitled to recover from PCI and PCA, jointly and severally, the sum of $536,934.00 in damages along with pre and post-judgment interest, and court costs of $1,332.45. • On the RICO claims, Plaintiff is entitled to a damages award of $1,610,802.00 against Anthony and PCA, jointly and severally, along with post-judgment interest, attorney's fees of $280,190.00, and cost of the suit of $1,332.45.

Given these findings of fact and conclusions of law, Plaintiff is ORDERED to file a motion for judgment which includes an election of remedies and a proposed judgment by June 10, 2015. Defendants are ORDERED to file any response to the motion for judgment 21 days after the filing of the motion.

ORDERED this 20th day of May, 2015.

/s/_________

NELVA GONZALES RAMOS
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914adedadd7b04934745077