@winesteven said:
Yes, I fully agree those are lovely coins. However, you completely ignored the question of why not pay $14.50 for those >coins to try to get a CAC, since if you succeed, the current market value would then be well over $1,000 higher for each one >that gets the CAC???? Obviously, you’re keeping it in the 66 slab to “maintain value”. Why not spend $14.50 to increase the >value quite significantly?
I keep them in the slab to protect them and not to maintain value, otherwise, I'd crack-em out and play with them.
If I wanted a coin that was worth $1000 more, I'd buy one.
Thanks!...
All were purchased well below PCGS price.
The 28 was $1000 below.
I rarely look at CAC coins for sale because the prices are insulting.
It was a good idea that the dealers over hyped.
@ReadyFireAim - I understand you won't pay a premium for a coin with a CAC, and that's OK, and understandable. You're not alone. I won't even open the can of worms of your comment of having your coins slabbed just for protection, as there are less expensive ways of doing that without paying for it to be graded. **But you have chosen to still ignore the simple question of why not pay $14.50 for an attempt at receiving a CAC for each of these admittedly lovely coins, knowing that for those that succeed, the resale value by you or your heirs will in all likelihood be very significantly higher. ** Paying $14.50 to submit a coin to CAC is so very different than paying a premium for a coin that already has a CAC, I wish you a nice and enjoyable weekend.
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
JVC not sure why your 1885CC did not CAC. Some Morgans with a Frosty Liberty have been "touched up". One good way of telling if this is the case is by carefully examining Liberty (usually on the cheek and neck) and looking for slight marks or grazes on the coin. These should be "bright" and will clearly contrast with the frost. This is readily apparent on the CAC example in this thread. When you look closely some coins which appear clean to the naked eye, will actually have marks or hits on the coin which show no contrast or frost break. If you truly think about it, that's impossible. If the coin has ANY marks on the face, post striking, it should have some kind of shiny contrast from the frost.
These marks have been filled in with an artificial frost in an attempt to get a higher grade on the coin. In the great majority of instances the TPG will kick these out as "Altered Surfaces", but on occasion, they will slip by.
I'm not saying your coin falls into this category, but it could be one explanation as JA does not CAC these coins.
@winesteven said:
**But you have chosen to still ignore the simple question of why not pay....
CAC was a great thing before TrueView.
I can line up pictures of a dozen coins now and anyone can pick the best one.
Everything will be C2C in the future (collector to collector)
CAC will be obsolete & dealers will be back working carny rides where they belong.
I'd rather spend my $15 on a decent glass of wine.
How would you feel if a "key" coin in a collection you were buying flunked? I just had that experience. Sometimes you get too excited and overlook things-or get smitten by the tags grades. . Fortunately we were able to toss the coin. While we won't have that grade, we'll have a one point lower killer CAC coin now. Would not want it any other way.
JA showed me what I missed. Yeah, I was angry at my self for missing it.
@specialist said:
How would you feel if a "key" coin in a collection you were buying flunked? I just had that experience. Sometimes you get too excited and overlook things-or get smitten by the tags grades. . Fortunately we were able to toss the coin. While we won't have that grade, we'll have a one point lower killer CAC coin now. Would not want it any other way.
Coins are grade agnostic. They don't care what the label says or the sticker represents.
It is the collectors and dealers that are meshugenah.
Frankly, I don't have a problem with any coin I submit not CACing. If it's not high end or "solid" for the grade, it's OK. I buy hundreds/thousands of coins a month and not everything is CAC quality. We all miss "problems" that get by the grading services and JA and CAC are great at vetting those coins, including coins that I submit.
For those who don't need this or don't care...that's alright too.
@specialist said:
How would you feel if a "key" coin in a collection you were buying flunked? I just had that experience. Sometimes you get too excited and overlook things-or get smitten by the tags grades. . Fortunately we were able to toss the coin. While we won't have that grade, we'll have a one point lower killer CAC coin now. Would not want it any other way.
JA showed me what I missed. Yeah, I was angry at my self for missing it.
Flunked? Flunked what.....one guys opinion? Your post sounds a lot like yet another cac advertisement.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
@specialist said:
How would you feel if a "key" coin in a collection you were buying flunked? I just had that experience. Sometimes you get too excited and overlook things-or get smitten by the tags grades. . Fortunately we were able to toss the coin. While we won't have that grade, we'll have a one point lower killer CAC coin now. Would not want it any other way.
JA showed me what I missed. Yeah, I was angry at my self for missing it.
This has happened to me too and it doesn’t feel good but I don’t think it is that black and white. It depends on the coin and reason. Is it original and slightly over graded? Also, is it so rare that it doesn’t really come CAC?
It’s best to know going into the purchase.
One of my coins will CAC with a downgrade. Is this something I should do...
Why doesn't the CAC site post the coins that don't sticker? Why should a coin be passed from collector to collector only to be submitted over to CAC over and over? Makes one think this is all about the money.
@AlexinPA said:
Why doesn't the CAC site post the coins that don't sticker? Why should a coin be passed from collector to collector only to be submitted over to CAC over and over? Makes one think this is all about the money.
if you look at the CAC site and click on FAQ, CAC explains why they don't identify coins that don't sticker.
I buy many slabbed coins below bid. I pick nice material and shy away from the real dogs. That some or many would not CAC not a big deal to me. I turn my material quickly and can compete (beat them on price) with wholesalers and big dealers at shows /online selling material say at 5-15 pct over bid. The few CAC coins I have not shown quicker inventory movement (buyer price resistance slightly higher CAC levels on those). I see CAC coins as a separate inventory class.
@AlexinPA said:
Why doesn't the CAC site post the coins that don't sticker? Why should a coin be passed from collector to collector only to be submitted over to CAC over and over? Makes one think this is all about the money.
Don't think the intent is money related. Seems like a lot of valuable coins though put on a lot of added mileage for no good reason.
I don’t believe that info (coins not CAC) sb released. It is a private matter between the submitter, paying customer and CAC. Furthermore it may expose cac to a class action lawsuit and certainly would infuriate submitters (business suicide).
Beyond that it’s nobody else’s business - learn how to grade and look at coins lol.
I have no desire help CAC treasure hunters either (buyers buying non CAC coins in hope of sticker after looking at some app showing coins that did not Sticker).
@Cougar1978 said:
I don’t believe that info (coins not CAC) sb released. It is a private matter between the submitter, paying customer and CAC. Furthermore it may expose cac to a class action lawsuit and certainly would infuriate submitters (business suicide).
Beyond that it’s nobody else’s business - learn how to grade and look at coins lol.
I have no desire help CAC treasure hunters either (buyers buying non CAC coins in hope of sticker after looking at some app showing coins that did not Sticker).
Well, you would make sense but: If it gets a sticker the coin, by PCGS or NGC number, is published. How many hands can one coin pass through if it is rejected and how many times can it be rejected?
@Cougar1978 said:
I don’t believe that info (coins not CAC) sb released. It is a private matter between the submitter, paying customer and CAC. Furthermore it may expose cac to a class action lawsuit and certainly would infuriate submitters (business suicide).
Beyond that it’s nobody else’s business - learn how to grade and look at coins lol.
I have no desire help CAC treasure hunters either (buyers buying non CAC coins in hope of sticker after looking at some app showing coins that did not Sticker).
Well, you would make sense but: If it gets a sticker the coin, by PCGS or NGC number, is published. How many hands can one coin pass through if it is rejected and how many times can it be rejected?
did you read CAC'S answer to your precise question on its website? that is your answer. you dont have to agree but that's their answer and since it is their company they are free to do it the way they think best
Nice coins still continue to sell, sticker or not.
As far as the OP's question, I don't send CAC coins so I guess I don't know what my reaction would be but I imagine it would be no different than submitting coins and not getting the grade I feel the coin deserves.
CAC is a separate inventory class and the CAC bid is input into the markup equation. if coin not CAC markup equation remains unchanged. I would only submit material to CAC where CAC bid substantially higher.
So not really a big deal for me as ones not CAC gonna sell for same (markup unchanged) but ones that caced (now priced higher bc CAC bid basis in markup). Got CAC? Just pay the money. Coins that are PQ sell quickly from my online store and shows whether CAC or not.
If Holder beat up get it reholderd before sending to CAC. Many buyers dislike scruffy holders.
One quibble I would have is how "no problem" coins become "problems" with them. So you have a coin that the ANA grading standard says should have hairlines or other issues as an MS60, 61, or 62. No sticker. The coin is qualified to get the grade, may even be "nice" for grade, but some petty peevish complaint keeps it from getting the sticker.
So, let me ask, if it dropped a grade would it then get the sticker, why not? Are they still going to say they don't like the marks, hairlines or abrasions? What is needed is a more objective and verifiable system.
@winesteven said:
**But you have chosen to still ignore the simple question of why not pay....
CAC was a great thing before TrueView.
I can line up pictures of a dozen coins now and anyone can pick the best one.
Everything will be C2C in the future (collector to collector)
CAC will be obsolete & dealers will be back working carny rides where they belong.
I'd rather spend my $15 on a decent glass of wine.
I would rather spend $45 on the whole bottle instead of breaking up the cost per glass and get CAC review for another $14.50. Assuming 4 glasses of wine per bottle, I save $0.50 and still get the CAC review .
What folks seem to not get is that what the CAC crew does is look at surfaces of the coins, in hand, and really look for intentional work by humans. You can't do that from an image in almost all cases. Also, hairlines can be hidden in images depending on the light, even TV's. So that is why on average, coins that get the CAC sticker are better than those that don't. Paying a premium for a CAC stickered coin is worth every penny almost every time because of this effort to only find the best. So I would love to see 20 66 Saints side by side, 10 that passed CAC, 10 that did not and I bet the differences are obvious when viewed in hand, even when the images of all 20 are each fantastic.
So if the quest is quality and un-messed with, then CAC and paying the premium is worth every glass of missed wine, IMO, or not, if you buy the bottle.
@spacehayduke said:
So I would love to see 20 66 Saints side by side, 10 that passed CAC, 10 that did not and I bet the differences are obvious
when viewed in hand, even when the images of all 20 are each fantastic.
I guess I'll rely on luck & PCGS TrueViews since they have not let me down yet.
I guess I'll rely on luck & PCGS TrueViews since they have not let me down yet.
Actually, IMO you've let yourself down. While I fully agree with you and MANY others that you won't pay a premium for purchasing a coin with a CAC (and that's OK), you probably have so many great coins that would qualify for a CAC, and if you obtained a CAC for them, those coins would be easier to sell at higher values at some future point, by you or your heirs, sometimes very significantly higher values, as shown above on this thread. It sounds like those that refuse to spend only $14.50 to try to get a CAC on lovely coins, especially those at four figures (or even high three figures) are cutting off their noses to spite their face.
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Comments
I keep them in the slab to protect them and not to maintain value, otherwise, I'd crack-em out and play with them.
If I wanted a coin that was worth $1000 more, I'd buy one.
Thanks!...
All were purchased well below PCGS price.
The 28 was $1000 below.
I rarely look at CAC coins for sale because the prices are insulting.
It was a good idea that the dealers over hyped.
My Saint Set
@ReadyFireAim - I understand you won't pay a premium for a coin with a CAC, and that's OK, and understandable. You're not alone. I won't even open the can of worms of your comment of having your coins slabbed just for protection, as there are less expensive ways of doing that without paying for it to be graded. **But you have chosen to still ignore the simple question of why not pay $14.50 for an attempt at receiving a CAC for each of these admittedly lovely coins, knowing that for those that succeed, the resale value by you or your heirs will in all likelihood be very significantly higher. ** Paying $14.50 to submit a coin to CAC is so very different than paying a premium for a coin that already has a CAC, I wish you a nice and enjoyable weekend.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
JVC not sure why your 1885CC did not CAC. Some Morgans with a Frosty Liberty have been "touched up". One good way of telling if this is the case is by carefully examining Liberty (usually on the cheek and neck) and looking for slight marks or grazes on the coin. These should be "bright" and will clearly contrast with the frost. This is readily apparent on the CAC example in this thread. When you look closely some coins which appear clean to the naked eye, will actually have marks or hits on the coin which show no contrast or frost break. If you truly think about it, that's impossible. If the coin has ANY marks on the face, post striking, it should have some kind of shiny contrast from the frost.
These marks have been filled in with an artificial frost in an attempt to get a higher grade on the coin. In the great majority of instances the TPG will kick these out as "Altered Surfaces", but on occasion, they will slip by.
I'm not saying your coin falls into this category, but it could be one explanation as JA does not CAC these coins.
CAC was a great thing before TrueView.
I can line up pictures of a dozen coins now and anyone can pick the best one.
Everything will be C2C in the future (collector to collector)
CAC will be obsolete & dealers will be back working carny rides where they belong.
I'd rather spend my $15 on a decent glass of wine.
My Saint Set
Now you’re talking! 😁
Have a nice weekend!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
How would you feel if a "key" coin in a collection you were buying flunked? I just had that experience. Sometimes you get too excited and overlook things-or get smitten by the tags grades. . Fortunately we were able to toss the coin. While we won't have that grade, we'll have a one point lower killer CAC coin now. Would not want it any other way.
JA showed me what I missed. Yeah, I was angry at my self for missing it.
Coins are grade agnostic. They don't care what the label says or the sticker represents.
It is the collectors and dealers that are meshugenah.
Frankly, I don't have a problem with any coin I submit not CACing. If it's not high end or "solid" for the grade, it's OK. I buy hundreds/thousands of coins a month and not everything is CAC quality. We all miss "problems" that get by the grading services and JA and CAC are great at vetting those coins, including coins that I submit.
For those who don't need this or don't care...that's alright too.
Flunked? Flunked what.....one guys opinion? Your post sounds a lot like yet another cac advertisement.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
This has happened to me too and it doesn’t feel good but I don’t think it is that black and white. It depends on the coin and reason. Is it original and slightly over graded? Also, is it so rare that it doesn’t really come CAC?
It’s best to know going into the purchase.
One of my coins will CAC with a downgrade. Is this something I should do...
Why doesn't the CAC site post the coins that don't sticker? Why should a coin be passed from collector to collector only to be submitted over to CAC over and over? Makes one think this is all about the money.
if you look at the CAC site and click on FAQ, CAC explains why they don't identify coins that don't sticker.
These threads are like arguing about an incoming tide. It will raise or lower all boats regardless of opinions.
I buy many slabbed coins below bid. I pick nice material and shy away from the real dogs. That some or many would not CAC not a big deal to me. I turn my material quickly and can compete (beat them on price) with wholesalers and big dealers at shows /online selling material say at 5-15 pct over bid. The few CAC coins I have not shown quicker inventory movement (buyer price resistance slightly higher CAC levels on those). I see CAC coins as a separate inventory class.
Don't think the intent is money related. Seems like a lot of valuable coins though put on a lot of added mileage for no good reason.
I don’t believe that info (coins not CAC) sb released. It is a private matter between the submitter, paying customer and CAC. Furthermore it may expose cac to a class action lawsuit and certainly would infuriate submitters (business suicide).
Beyond that it’s nobody else’s business - learn how to grade and look at coins lol.
I have no desire help CAC treasure hunters either (buyers buying non CAC coins in hope of sticker after looking at some app showing coins that did not Sticker).
Well, you would make sense but: If it gets a sticker the coin, by PCGS or NGC number, is published. How many hands can one coin pass through if it is rejected and how many times can it be rejected?
did you read CAC'S answer to your precise question on its website? that is your answer. you dont have to agree but that's their answer and since it is their company they are free to do it the way they think best
I love this line:
CAC will be obsolete & dealers will be back working carny rides where they belong.
LOL!!!!!!! They said that when third party grading started too!!!!!!
Nice coins still continue to sell, sticker or not.
As far as the OP's question, I don't send CAC coins so I guess I don't know what my reaction would be but I imagine it would be no different than submitting coins and not getting the grade I feel the coin deserves.
CAC is a separate inventory class and the CAC bid is input into the markup equation. if coin not CAC markup equation remains unchanged. I would only submit material to CAC where CAC bid substantially higher.
So not really a big deal for me as ones not CAC gonna sell for same (markup unchanged) but ones that caced (now priced higher bc CAC bid basis in markup). Got CAC? Just pay the money. Coins that are PQ sell quickly from my online store and shows whether CAC or not.
If Holder beat up get it reholderd before sending to CAC. Many buyers dislike scruffy holders.
One quibble I would have is how "no problem" coins become "problems" with them. So you have a coin that the ANA grading standard says should have hairlines or other issues as an MS60, 61, or 62. No sticker. The coin is qualified to get the grade, may even be "nice" for grade, but some petty peevish complaint keeps it from getting the sticker.
So, let me ask, if it dropped a grade would it then get the sticker, why not? Are they still going to say they don't like the marks, hairlines or abrasions? What is needed is a more objective and verifiable system.
I feel about the same as I did at the junior high dance when a girl refused to dance with me
Dealers adapted.
Feeding after one fat cat is better than fighting for scraps.
It's a confidence scam.
Pump-n-dump...Move on to the next sucker.
In our case though I'd call it Hype-n-swipe (as in hype the coin & swipe the cash)
Once they have CAC-ed all the coins they can find, it will be off to some other money maker.
Just like pushing OGH.
My Saint Set
I would rather spend $45 on the whole bottle instead of breaking up the cost per glass and get CAC review for another $14.50. Assuming 4 glasses of wine per bottle, I save $0.50 and still get the CAC review
.
What folks seem to not get is that what the CAC crew does is look at surfaces of the coins, in hand, and really look for intentional work by humans. You can't do that from an image in almost all cases. Also, hairlines can be hidden in images depending on the light, even TV's. So that is why on average, coins that get the CAC sticker are better than those that don't. Paying a premium for a CAC stickered coin is worth every penny almost every time because of this effort to only find the best. So I would love to see 20 66 Saints side by side, 10 that passed CAC, 10 that did not and I bet the differences are obvious when viewed in hand, even when the images of all 20 are each fantastic.
So if the quest is quality and un-messed with, then CAC and paying the premium is worth every glass of missed wine, IMO, or not, if you buy the bottle.
Best, SH
I guess I'll rely on luck & PCGS TrueViews since they have not let me down yet.
My Saint Set
Actually, IMO you've let yourself down. While I fully agree with you and MANY others that you won't pay a premium for purchasing a coin with a CAC (and that's OK), you probably have so many great coins that would qualify for a CAC, and if you obtained a CAC for them, those coins would be easier to sell at higher values at some future point, by you or your heirs, sometimes very significantly higher values, as shown above on this thread. It sounds like those that refuse to spend only $14.50 to try to get a CAC on lovely coins, especially those at four figures (or even high three figures) are cutting off their noses to spite their face.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996