"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
Have to add a non-gold coin - would be prohibitive if struck in gold.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
Future collectible, 2013-D Clark Gruber .825 Native Colorado Gold.
Just as fractional California gold "coins" from the 1850's to 1870's are listed in the Red Book so will DCarr C&G's. Of course, it may take 50 years and I'll be toast, but in the meanwhile, please enjoy this MS70 specimen.
The Moffat $5's seem to be the only territorial gold that actually circulated for "longer" periods in California. The weight of most other issues were called into question so they were melted. Other than the Moffats, do we find any other issues in lower grades like the VG10 above? Maybe the Norris, Gregg, Norris' or the Assay $10's?
@OriginalDan said:
The Moffat $5's seem to be the only territorial gold that actually circulated for "longer" periods in California. The weight of most other issues were called into question so they were melted. Other than the Moffats, do we find any other issues in lower grades like the VG10 above? Maybe the Norris, Gregg, Norris' or the Assay $10's?
........."Moffat & Co. was the most important private gold minter in the California Gold Rush. In fact, when the federal government decided to open a San Francisco Mint, it asked two members of the company for their help. "
@OriginalDan said:
The Moffat $5's seem to be the only territorial gold that actually circulated for "longer" periods in California. The weight of most other issues were called into question so they were melted. Other than the Moffats, do we find any other issues in lower grades like the VG10 above? Maybe the Norris, Gregg, Norris' or the Assay $10's?
I think that most of the territorial gold coins circulated...my theory is that many of the lower grade ones were melted somewhere down the line...and that the grading system for territorials seems to start at XF 40 because no one knows how to grade them...
Good article..."Moffat $5 and $10 coins were heavily used in gold camps, and many were later melted down, rendering Mint State 1850 $5 Moffats very rare and a coveted prize for many collectors."
Sure they all circulated, but why did more of the Moffat's survive in low grade than others. Were they just more common, or was it due to a higher level of trust, or something else?
This one was recently imaged through the holder, to keep the OGH its been resting in for many years. I think PCGS did a great job on the Trueview, despite shooting it through 25+ year old plastic.
The coin is graded "AU50". I put quotes around that because you can go compared it to any of the recently graded SSCA coins and see that it is superior to the AU53 and AU55 graded higher on coinfacts - both details and appearance. Wass issues in general were poorly struck, and thus not easy to grade.
Some interesting historical notes:
The last numeral in the date, almost certainly a '2' was drilled out of the die, then punched with a '5'.
The punch used to place Liberty on this coin was also used for the 1855 "Small Head" $20, making the $20 look a bit funny since the head size was intended for the $10. There's also a "Large Head" $20, that shared the same Liberty head punch with the Wass $50. Remember these were private, borderline 'emergency' issues due to the severe lack of circulating coinage. The private firms like Wass Molitor did what they had to do to get coinage out into circulation.
About 40 of these were recovered from the SSCA wreck, massively increasing the surviving population and softening prices for collectors. This example is still one of the nicest out there, even with the SSCA mini-hoard coming out.
Wasn’t Humbert Humbert Humbert the male lead in “Lolita?”
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@OriginalDan said:
This one was recently imaged through the holder, to keep the OGH its been resting in for many years. I think PCGS did a great job on the Trueview, despite shooting it through 25+ year old plastic.
The coin is graded "AU50". I put quotes around that because you can go compared it to any of the recently graded SSCA coins and see that it is superior to the AU53 and AU55 graded higher on coinfacts - both details and appearance. Wass issues in general were poorly struck, and thus not easy to grade.
Some interesting historical notes:
The last numeral in the date, almost certainly a '2' was drilled out of the die, then punched with a '5'.
The punch used to place Liberty on this coin was also used for the 1855 "Small Head" $20, making the $20 look a bit funny since the head size was intended for the $10. There's also a "Large Head" $20, that shared the same Liberty head punch with the Wass $50. Remember these were private, borderline 'emergency' issues due to the severe lack of circulating coinage. The private firms like Wass Molitor did what they had to do to get coinage out into circulation.
About 40 of these were recovered from the SSCA wreck, massively increasing the surviving population and softening prices for collectors. This example is still one of the nicest out there, even with the SSCA mini-hoard coming out.
A few years back the National Museum of American History (Smithsonian Institution) in Washington DC had a non-permanent display. Item #2 caught my eye back then.
@OriginalDan said:
This one was recently imaged through the holder, to keep the OGH its been resting in for many years. I think PCGS did a great job on the Trueview, despite shooting it through 25+ year old plastic.
The coin is graded "AU50". I put quotes around that because you can go compared it to any of the recently graded SSCA coins and see that it is superior to the AU53 and AU55 graded higher on coinfacts - both details and appearance. Wass issues in general were poorly struck, and thus not easy to grade.
Some interesting historical notes:
The last numeral in the date, almost certainly a '2' was drilled out of the die, then punched with a '5'.
The punch used to place Liberty on this coin was also used for the 1855 "Small Head" $20, making the $20 look a bit funny since the head size was intended for the $10. There's also a "Large Head" $20, that shared the same Liberty head punch with the Wass $50. Remember these were private, borderline 'emergency' issues due to the severe lack of circulating coinage. The private firms like Wass Molitor did what they had to do to get coinage out into circulation.
About 40 of these were recovered from the SSCA wreck, massively increasing the surviving population and softening prices for collectors. This example is still one of the nicest out there, even with the SSCA mini-hoard coming out.
Awesome coin, and JA must have thought it made a case for AU58 as it sports a gold sticker now.
@OriginalDan said:
This one was recently imaged through the holder, to keep the OGH its been resting in for many years. I think PCGS did a great job on the Trueview, despite shooting it through 25+ year old plastic.
The coin is graded "AU50". I put quotes around that because you can go compared it to any of the recently graded SSCA coins and see that it is superior to the AU53 and AU55 graded higher on coinfacts - both details and appearance. Wass issues in general were poorly struck, and thus not easy to grade.
Some interesting historical notes:
The last numeral in the date, almost certainly a '2' was drilled out of the die, then punched with a '5'.
The punch used to place Liberty on this coin was also used for the 1855 "Small Head" $20, making the $20 look a bit funny since the head size was intended for the $10. There's also a "Large Head" $20, that shared the same Liberty head punch with the Wass $50. Remember these were private, borderline 'emergency' issues due to the severe lack of circulating coinage. The private firms like Wass Molitor did what they had to do to get coinage out into circulation.
About 40 of these were recovered from the SSCA wreck, massively increasing the surviving population and softening prices for collectors. This example is still one of the nicest out there, even with the SSCA mini-hoard coming out.
Awesome coin, and JA must have thought it made a case for AU58 as it sports a gold sticker now.
I should show you the invoice from when I bought it. It says “AU58” in quotes 😀
topstuf
Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Old California gold.
Yes, I would like very much to post some Territorial gold......
But I don't have any.
Oooooooh, nice horsie!
Heck yeah! My favorite😎....
@boiler78 that Baldwin $10 is amazing. It appears to be PL/cameo, is it?
The Bechtler ain't too shabby either.
Wow... very impressive gold coins... Thanks for showing us... Cheers, RickO
@OriginalDan
Very Nice!
@Wil1858 those first two saw some real action back in the day. Nice skin on those, I love how territorial gold tones with color.
Edit: yeah yeah, I know it's not actually the gold that tones, but the other alloy metals.
Love that horseman!!!
Have to add a non-gold coin - would be prohibitive if struck in gold.
I guess it’s all relative! This is still a dream coin for most.
Future collectible, 2013-D Clark Gruber .825 Native Colorado Gold.
Just as fractional California gold "coins" from the 1850's to 1870's are listed in the Red Book so will DCarr C&G's. Of course, it may take 50 years and I'll be toast, but in the meanwhile, please enjoy this MS70 specimen.
Impressive gold in here!
My YouTube Channel
More California crust.....
I love this $5 Moffat & Co reverse....recent reholder from our host 😁.
Bold and present eagle, yet respectfully “crude” per Dr Kagin.
Very impressive, thank you all for sharing !!!
Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia
Findley Ridge Collection
About Findley Ridge
The Moffat $5's seem to be the only territorial gold that actually circulated for "longer" periods in California. The weight of most other issues were called into question so they were melted. Other than the Moffats, do we find any other issues in lower grades like the VG10 above? Maybe the Norris, Gregg, Norris' or the Assay $10's?
https://coinweek.com/dealers-companies/blanchard/curious-liberty-1850-5-moffat-gold-coin/
........."Moffat & Co. was the most important private gold minter in the California Gold Rush. In fact, when the federal government decided to open a San Francisco Mint, it asked two members of the company for their help. "
I think that most of the territorial gold coins circulated...my theory is that many of the lower grade ones were melted somewhere down the line...and that the grading system for territorials seems to start at XF 40 because no one knows how to grade them...
https://coinweek.com/dealers-companies/blanchard/curious-liberty-1850-5-moffat-gold-coin/
Great read. Thanks.
Good article..."Moffat $5 and $10 coins were heavily used in gold camps, and many were later melted down, rendering Mint State 1850 $5 Moffats very rare and a coveted prize for many collectors."
Sure they all circulated, but why did more of the Moffat's survive in low grade than others. Were they just more common, or was it due to a higher level of trust, or something else?
Great thread!
My YouTube Channel
nice coins everyone!
Even more California crust for your enjoyment....
The 1852 $10 Humbert hat trick
PCGS XF-45 CAC
PCGS XF-45 Overdate
PCGS AU50 Cal Left
Great coins!
Latin American Collection
Love the overdate with split reverse die!
Feb 19th, 1861
This one was recently imaged through the holder, to keep the OGH its been resting in for many years. I think PCGS did a great job on the Trueview, despite shooting it through 25+ year old plastic.
The coin is graded "AU50". I put quotes around that because you can go compared it to any of the recently graded SSCA coins and see that it is superior to the AU53 and AU55 graded higher on coinfacts - both details and appearance. Wass issues in general were poorly struck, and thus not easy to grade.
Some interesting historical notes:
The last numeral in the date, almost certainly a '2' was drilled out of the die, then punched with a '5'.
The punch used to place Liberty on this coin was also used for the 1855 "Small Head" $20, making the $20 look a bit funny since the head size was intended for the $10. There's also a "Large Head" $20, that shared the same Liberty head punch with the Wass $50. Remember these were private, borderline 'emergency' issues due to the severe lack of circulating coinage. The private firms like Wass Molitor did what they had to do to get coinage out into circulation.
About 40 of these were recovered from the SSCA wreck, massively increasing the surviving population and softening prices for collectors. This example is still one of the nicest out there, even with the SSCA mini-hoard coming out.
I have a gold plated 2009 District of Columbia territorial quarter , but I would hate to ruin such a beautiful thread. Salutations to the OP.
Wasn’t Humbert Humbert Humbert the male lead in “Lolita?”
My humble example.
My YouTube Channel
That is INSANELY nice!
My YouTube Channel
I’m fond of this one.
@skier07 thats really nice
Cool, love the remaining crust around the lettering. Been tempted to get into Bechtlers for a loooong time, but you can’t do everything.
My YouTube Channel
A few years back the National Museum of American History (Smithsonian Institution) in Washington DC had a non-permanent display. Item #2 caught my eye back then.
Bump for a cool thread
55cac (should be 58cac)
58cac
58cac
45cac
55cac (TV sucks)
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Awesome coin, and JA must have thought it made a case for AU58 as it sports a gold sticker now.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Thanks for bumping this thread DD, great one to revisit!
DW has said multiple times that only two or three people know how to accurately grade territorials and they don’t work for the TPGs.
I should show you the invoice from when I bought it. It says “AU58” in quotes 😀