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24K Pure Gold Barack Obama Medal, 2008 How is this possible?
donjalu
Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
I bought this coin in Jan. 2009 from a dealer in LA. The XRF is Au: 99.46 Ni: 0.14 Cu: 0.31 Zn: 0.08 Ag: 0.00
Dia. 39.10mm Thickness 1.87mm Wt. 31.121 gms. Reeded edge. Does anyone have info about this medal?
See . pdf file.
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Pullled the pics out.
Not a coin, probably a medal or token.
A private issue, which was legal and could be in any composition that the maker set out to make.
Yes, a medal or token by private issue makes sense. The dealer said very few were made but couldn't give any number.
How common is it for private issue businesses to issue tokens or medals? Why is the fineness stamp absent?
It is very common for private business to issue medals and tokens. MOST medals or tokens are from private entities not government entitites.
I would be VERY concerned that the medal is a thick gold plate and not pure gold all the way through. In the modern period, it is unusual not to stamp the fineness. Not impossible, mind you, but it is not common for a one troy ounce gold medal to not be marked on the edge.
XRF is a surface measurement technique. It will not be fooled by a thin gold overlayer, but if the gold is thick enough the XRF may not be able to see what was under it.
With the given dimensions of Dia. 39.10mm Thickness 1.87mm Wt. 31.121 gms...
...and it’s 24K gold?
It's close. I assume a raised rim. A 39.10 mm x 1.87 mm gold slug would weigh 43.38 grams (1.39 troy ounces). If the rims are high enough and the average thickness is only 1.4 mm, then it would work out about right.
Is there a lettered edge?
All I can do is rely on the XRF at this point. What would be my next step to verify finess? Could I take it to a refiner for analysis?
I agree that it is suspect that it is real gold. With no maker's mark and fineness, and no paperwork, I would be skeptical that it is solid gold.
The portrait is a bit cartoonish so I don't think it was done by a top rate minter. Another reason I might doubt its metal content.
No lettering on the edge
You could scratch the edge between the reeds. You could also measure the specific gravity (an @insider2 favorite) which would confirm gold.
It's just really strange to have a low quality medal with $1000 worth of gold in it (2009 prices) that isn't marked as to content.
It is also a really strange medal to make. What was it commemorating? The electoral victory? The inauguration wasn't until 2009. It's just a very expensive medal for someone to make.
A bit OT. But a good warning not to rely on just one way for checking for authenticity.
I have a COA from the LA dealer showing; National Mint of America by Shervin Lalezary
See .pdf file. Sorry, I do not know how to pull pics out of the .pdf
https://worthpoint.com/worthopedia/24k-barack-obama-presidential-bullion-pure-gold-coin
Not for nothing, but why didn't you lead with this information?
So it’s a 1 oz gold medal.
Sorry for not initally including the COA info. I didn't mean to mislead but wanted more knowledgible people to verify what I have.
The article states:
"The die was hand-engraved by Alexander Shagrin of The National Mint of America"
I have never heard of "The National Mint of America". It may just be a marketing entity that contacts the production.
I have, however, heard of Alex Shagin (note: "Shagin", not "Shagrin").
Although that may be a fitting spelling since my prior contact with Mr. Shagin could best be described as "chagrin".
Wow, this is what I have. Thank you jmlanzaf for the Worthpoint info.
The ad said the die maker is Alexander Shagrin. Perhaps there was a typo. I believe the last name could be Shagin. He has done a lot of nice work for the Sovereign Nation of the Shawnee Tribe designing gold and silver rounds. Shagin also designed the Poarch Creek palladium 1/2 Oz SkyDancer medal. What a small world.
Based on the search for business records that I did, it does appear to be largely a marketing firm although they have received shipments of planchets from China
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Interesting... I had not seen this medal before.. and that is a terrible caricature....It seems you do have an ounce of pure gold.. that is the best part. Cheers, RickO
Wouldn’t the price you paid for it be a good indicator of its gold content?
Yes, IMO the price reflected the gold content.
The price charged doesn't necessarily reflect the melt value of a coin or medal.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.