USPS - Stolen Coins
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UtahCoin
Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭✭✭
USPS - Stolen Coins
The following coins were sent by Express Mail and went as far as a Post
Office sorting location in Chicago. After a week and a half, it finally
moved on and was delivered with USPS tape over the opening and with the
coins having been taken out of the inner box and re-taped.
Stolen
Raw coins
1798/7 $10.00 AU
1805 $5.00 AU
1807 $5.00 AU
If anyone has information contact:
Doug Davis
817-723-7231
Doug@numismaticcrimes.org
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
7
Comments
Ouch. Hope they got insurance.
@UtahCoin Thanks for the info!
Wow! That’s a brazen inside job. IMO. Need to use registered.
My stomach is churning upon reading this. Why Express and not Registered? Its not liked they need to meet a First Strike submission deadline.
A thief trying to sell coins like that is likely to stand out to any dealer. I wonder if the thief has another way to dispose of them for more than pennies on the dollar?
Given the value, I would have at least sent each in a separate package.
Yes registered is the only secure way. I have never lost one that way.
I wonder if the insurance $$ on the postage was what keyed the thief or thieves. Assuming the package had USPS insurance vs third party.
another point, never go to a private owned postal center. their package loss per year is very high
USPS shipping labels do not show a $ value. They do show if item is insured.
Edit: by dollar value I mean the insured value of the enclosed item.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
When the mailman delivers a package to your door with very expensive coins, do you check to see if the package has been tampered with before you sign for it? What if the package was opened and taped up with USPS tape, should you refuse delivery and tell them to return it back to the sender so he can deal with the insurance issues?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Unless seller's third party insurer required it to be shipped express mail. USPS (registered) is my third party insurer of choice.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Hmm... pretty sure it show’s postage paid for those without business accounts or pre-paids.
I am going to have to pay more attention to that label and see what it says when the PO slaps it on personal package(s).
sorry, misunderstood your "insurance $$" to mean showing the insured value of the item on the label. It does not. Label does show the postage unless, like you said it was a seller generated label and seller chose not to show postage amount.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Dont know the value of these coins, but USPS max. insured value,is $50000.
Oh that's a darn shame. I can't stand the thought of someone melting an early eagle.
That is ridiculous.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Please use Registered mail. Yes, it cost more and take a lot longer but it is worth it.
Actually, once your insured value hits around $800 it becomes cheaper to use registered for an insured item.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
that is sad news. I hope they find the coin and return them ( hang the crooks while there at it )
Amazing how good x-ray machines are at identifying contents.
bob
Freaking thieves 😡. They need to screen these postal workers better. This is becoming to be a regular deal these days. Anything of ANY value should be insured. This way when it is stolen the postal service insurance will have to pay out and then, maybe, they look into with a cattle prong .
I’m sorry for your loss.
Are there any detailed photos of the coins? Surely they will turn up somewhere.
Collector, occasional seller
Hope they had private insurance as the PO's insurance will all be denied.
bob
So a few things about shipping. Most coin dealers including both parties in this situation have private insurance. Many use Willis, others use Hugh Wood and a few others. This way there can literally be 0 USPS/Fedex/UPS insurance on a package so nobody will know the value. Sometimes you get dirty looks from USPS employees but whatever. The shipper is a long time professional who has sent many thousands of packages and who knows the proper way to send a package. As far as insurance, my policy covers Fedex Overnight, Priority Express and Registered equally. The issue with registered is that even though it is marginally more secure, the other options rarely leave the package sitting in a facility. If a package is constantly on the move, it is more difficult for it to be messed with. With registered, if a package can sit for days for whatever reason, there is opportunity for shenanigans.
There is really not a hard limit what you can get a package insured for privately. 100k is pretty standard and for not a lot more money you can get another 100k+
I’ve made this mistake once. It’s all I ever needed to learn. Out over $10K. All claims were denied even though it was USPS theft. I wouldn’t wish what I went through on anybody.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
They should tell you at the Post Office that if you don’t send registered that there is a reasonable chance that a high dollar package will be stolen along the way
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
my dealer friend has been offered coins for as low 5-10 % of value..... he calls police each time suspecting coins stolen, but crooks leave before cops arrive ..pawn shops are used for dumping... using fake ids
Crook County strikes again.
My thoughts exactly! Even if they catch him, he'll probably know someone and they'll just let him go.
Didn’t something happen in Chicago where Justice was served to the Criminal, Charges dropped or something like that. Chicago that is a town you can trust!
Sorry to hear that.
Registered mail is the best way to go for items of value. I have used it whenever I have shipped gold coins. Cheers, RickO
I've made claims twice (Express Mail)... both were denied, then approved upon appeal. Not fun at all.
You got it! That’s the only way I will ship High End Coins
Makes you wonder if they even bother to investigate. Appears to be routine behavior from the postal service.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Damn, damn, damn! I (like many folks here) was hoping for a positive outcome for you. I am so sorry this did not work out. Damn!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
OMG, how awful !!!
That sucks. I remember you posting about it and had hoped for a more positive resolution. On what grounds did they deny?
On a different note, I've nearly had strokes when a couple of the most valuable packages ever to hit my doorstep (not quite in some people's league but big enough) were sent Express. It was, as above, privately insured and the seller did note it was to keep it moving too fast to be tampered with. One had been run over a tad and a coin needed a new plastic tomb, fortunately nothing harmed other than plastic, but it still freaked me out.
Registered is slow, but it gets there. Eventually.
Appeal? With coins USPS is notorious for denying the first claim but often changes heart with the second one.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
"All claims were denied..."
FYI... perhaps you could try again? From the USPS Domestic Mail Manual:
4.0 Claims
4.1 Payable Claim
Insurance for loss or damage to insured, COD, or Registered Mail within the amount covered by the fee paid, or the indemnity limits for Priority Mail, or Priority Mail Express (under 4.2), is payable for the following:
For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the fair market value determination must be current and prior to the mailing date.
Unless it went registered the sender will never recoup a dime. USPS insurance is worthless.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
I agree with Mark and everybody else beating the same drum that we’ve pounded on for years. People continue to want the fastest method with the higher chance of theft and then wonder why it happened. We know. Continue doing the same thing that fails until something “changes.”
Now if someone wants to use priority mail to send me items that is their risk, not mine.
Go Registered and Go Zags!
Not to intervene or belabor the point but the reference was to an un/underinsured shipment.
I appealed to the highest level in Washington DC. Because I didn’t have the hard receipts (I bought all with cash ) they used that as the sole reason for denial. At the beginning of the process they said they would honor if I could show comp eBay sales. I provided this and dealer statements of value They reversed course. No one investigated and I talked to supervisors at every agency. It was an obvious theft which no one wanted to admit on the record. Off the record it was like yeah that was an inside job. It was like being a mouse in maze. The system is set up to frustrate and aggreviate. For my mental health I had to let it go. I spent well over 100 man hours on this.
At the end of the day I screwed up and the PO made sure I paid for the mistake.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
If USPS will deny claims on insured Express Mail packages, it seems likely they would deny claims on insured Registered Mail packages as well. I don't see what Registered Mail provides beyond much longer opportunity for someone to steal your package.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
That's enough Jack to consider speaking with an attorney IMHO. It might just take a letter of intent from an attorney to get them to change course.
This has always been my worry with big ticket coins say over $500. I have not had an outgoing shipment item lost by USPS in over 20 years.
Have decided just sell this material at shows I set up vs ebay (15 pct bay selling expense, risks of loss, return hassles).
In managing any coin business one has to consider risk management, insurance.