Home U.S. Coin Forum

Behold the 1918 over 1917-S overdate Mercury dime!!!!

BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

Looks like an eight over seven ......

Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"

Comments

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No such animal. ;)

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely a 1918 proof - look at that wide rim !
    ;)

  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019 2:02PM

    @RogerB said:
    Definitely a 1918 proof - look at that wide rim !
    ;)

    Well here is the reverse, Roger
    Guess you would say the same about it too

    So guess Roger grades it Pr02!

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And just by coincidence there is a 1918/7-s quarter

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the reverse photo -- sure must be a proof, too. Where's Wally's letter of authentication ?

    :)

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's a thread from 2002 asking about one.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/129098/1918-7-s-mercury-dime

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You guys can laugh all you wish. Back in the 70's, as a rookie authenticator, I found a sheet with every coin listed from 1800 to 1960. I have no idea where it is now, how I got it, or who printed it. Perhaps it was a way to inventory a collection.

    The dates/mints were on the left and at the top of the row were the denominations. The second thing I thought to do (I don't remember the first - LOL) was to color the known overdate squares. Based on what I knew, I figured if the Mint overdated one denomination they may have done others that were still unknown.

    Somewhere I have what I believe is VF 1918/7 dime too. It's probably in storage down in TN. If these truly exist, a high grade one will turn up eventually. Anyway, IMHO there are overdate coins out there still waiting to be discovered. possibly in 42, 43, 1887, 1877, etc. :wink:

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What in the pan-seared deep dish bat-crazy is this tomfoolery?

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @abcde12345 said:
    What in the pan-seared deep dish bat-crazy is this tomfoolery?

    Nope. I believe that one day a high grade genuine 1918/17 dime will be found. I've been looking for a second example. Mine has that tiny bit of metal at the right top of the "8."

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @abcde12345 said:
    What in the pan-seared deep dish bat-crazy is this tomfoolery?

    Nope. I believe that one day a high grade genuine 1918/17 dime will be found. I've been looking for a second example. Mine has that tiny bit of metal at the right top of the "8."

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019 3:40PM

    The fairy you posted looks like a guy in depends.

    PS I've discovered one previously unknown overdate that is in now FS so I know the Tooth Fairy is REAL! :)

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @abcde12345 said:

    @Insider2 said:

    @abcde12345 said:
    What in the pan-seared deep dish bat-crazy is this tomfoolery?

    Nope. I believe that one day a high grade genuine 1918/17 dime will be found. I've been looking for a second example. Mine has that tiny bit of metal at the right top of the "8."

    @Insider2 said:
    The fairy you posted looks like a guy in depends.

    PS I've discovered one previously unknown overdate that is in now FS so I know the Tooth Fairy is REAL! :)

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Will someone PLEASE post a pretty fairy.

  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yikes!!! This thread has gone complexity off of the deep end.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Put me in the camp of waiting for a higher grade.......

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    here is a current picture of the tooth fairy
    born in 1917 or 1918, take yer pick.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,481 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Put 'em together. See what ya get:

    Far as I'm concerned, ANYTHING was possible in the 1917-18 period.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If one of our newbie error searchers posted this, everyone would be screaming "PMD" or "send it in".

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019 5:18PM

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    Put 'em together. See what ya get:

    Far as I'm concerned, ANYTHING was possible in the 1917-18 period.

    Pete

    That is why the only evidence would "just" be at the top right of the "8." The loops would not be affected as on the 18/7 25c. Nevertheless, it is not looking good. :(

  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sure looks like the front of the top of the 7 would stick out too.
    This one was sold by heritage and appears to have a similar anomaly.

    Remnants of a clash?

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • TiborTibor Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    The fairy you posted looks like a guy in depends.

    It is . And I'll thank you not to use that picture of me without my consent! ;)

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @clarkbar04 said:
    Sure looks like the front of the top of the 7 would stick out too.
    This one was sold by heritage and appears to have a similar anomaly.

    Remnants of a clash?

    This is what mine looks like. Mine is probably in a little lower grade.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019 8:03AM

    1917 was the first year George Morgan was Engraver. Unfortunately, he did not have an Assistant Engraver and had to rely on the die shop foreman and workers to inspect dies during and after manufacture. It is likely this situation led to the known 1918/17 dies and certainly opens the door to speculation that other hub overdates were made and possibly used. (Working dies for 1918 were made beginning in early October, 1917, and continued through most of 1918. It is more likely for hub overdating to occur during the overlap period from October to December when both current and next-year hubs were in use, )

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019 8:28AM

    Here's a rough overlay using images posted by BuffaloironTail.

    Spacing of digits 1-9-1 in the two dates does not appear to be identical - likely because the wide 8 had to be accommodated.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,481 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice put together Roger. Looks like a no go.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Here's a rough overlay using images posted by BuffaloironTail.

    Spacing of digits 1-9-1 in the two dates does not appear to be identical - likely because the wide 8 had to be accommodated.

    Each numeral is stamped separately, is it not? So overlaying the entire date is not as instructive as overlaying just the 7 and the 8.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Each numeral is stamped separately, is it not?"

    No, that ended decades earlier. The design master die (aka 'matrix') had no date. An intermediate master die would have the first two or three digits in place, and the final ones were added to an annual master die. This last piece was used to make multiple annual master hubs. (There could also be other intermediate versions.)

    1-9 or 1-9-1 should have come from a master die with the final digit added for the correct year. If you look at photos of 1942/1 P dimes this will be much clearer.

    Part of the discrepancy for the posted photos is image scale and geometry. Good overlays require images at identical scale, geometry, lighting and high resolution.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @RogerB said:
    Here's a rough overlay using images posted by BuffaloironTail.

    Spacing of digits 1-9-1 in the two dates does not appear to be identical - likely because the wide 8 had to be accommodated.

    Each numeral is stamped separately, is it not? So overlaying the entire date is not as instructive as overlaying just the 7 and the 8.

    AFAIK, by the time these were struck, only the last one or two numerals were applied. So by the time the working dies were being hubbed, the entire date should have been uniform.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @RogerB said:
    Here's a rough overlay using images posted by BuffaloironTail.

    Spacing of digits 1-9-1 in the two dates does not appear to be identical - likely because the wide 8 had to be accommodated.

    Each numeral is stamped separately, is it not? So overlaying the entire date is not as instructive as overlaying just the 7 and the 8.

    AFAIK, by the time these were struck, only the last one or two numerals were applied. So by the time the working dies were being hubbed, the entire date should have been uniform.

    Which means you can move the 8 around

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    "Each numeral is stamped separately, is it not?"

    No, that ended decades earlier. The design master die (aka 'matrix') had no date. An intermediate master die would have the first two or three digits in place, and the final ones were added to an annual master die. This last piece was used to make multiple annual master hubs. (There could also be other intermediate versions.)

    1-9 or 1-9-1 should have come from a master die with the final digit added for the correct year. If you look at photos of 1942/1 P dimes this will be much clearer.

    Part of the discrepancy for the posted photos is image scale and geometry. Good overlays require images at identical scale, geometry, lighting and high resolution.

    This makes little sense with your earlier suggestion that the 191 spacing needed to accommodate the wide 8.

    In fact, you should scale the image to make the 19 or 191 match and then move the 8 around

  • kbbpllkbbpll Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019 4:06PM

    Seems like every other one on Heritage has "something" going on in that corner of the 8. I think it might just be a die chip. Edit - ha, as soon as I posted I realized my HA search pulled up all P mint. So maybe an anomaly on the 8 punch or the master die in Philly?

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    RE: "This makes little sense with your earlier suggestion that the 191 spacing needed to accommodate the wide 8."

    Thank about it. The first 2 or 3 digits might remain in the same position per the master die, but the 4th digit could be manually entered into a master die with its position determined on digits so that a balanced appearance is maintained.

    All dies were made at Philadelphia. All dies were made the same way. The next to last step was to punch a mintmark as needed. The final step for all was hardening, tempering and deburring.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Above should read: "...position determined on kerning (spacing) digits so that a balanced..."

  • TiborTibor Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    oops

  • This content has been removed.
  • kbbpllkbbpll Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Wait, when did RogerB get banned? What did I miss?

    It has been sanitized.

  • This content has been removed.
  • OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Wait, when did RogerB get banned? What did I miss?

    That's news to me too

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Wait, when did RogerB get banned? What did I miss?

    About a month ago it was a timeout....... guess the timeout didn't work out. :/

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file