1965 Cuba peso help please
jfoot13
Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭
I sent this in thnking it was a regular 1965 exhile peso but they said it was an modern imatation X#M16 so I do a lookup and find on heritage auctions a ANAC XF went for over $1,000.. does anyone know anything about this manner of beast??
PCGS Coin Information
PCGS #
705644
Date, mintmark
"1965"
Denomination
S Peso
Variety
X#M16 Modern Imitation PE
Country
Cuba
Grade
PL66
Holder Type
PCGS Gold Shield
Population
2
Pop Higher
0
If you can't swim you better stay in the boat.......
0
Comments
You've been told what your coin is by the TPGS. If it is in a slab it is genuine. If they did not slab it, your coin is a reproduction. The 1965 issue has been going up in price.
the coin is pictured above with the certification number , I'm wondering if it's a reissue , a new issue from original dies or what. I can't find any information on it?
It is not a reissue of anything. I believe these pieces were struck by the Cuban exiles in the US. The originals had dates in the late 18th Century. Apparently the grading company regards the 1965 issue as imitations because they copy the design of the original pieces. "1965" is considered to be modern. The price of these pieces is all over the place with some selling for what you found.
I don't know what more can be added as you OP says it all. Fortunately, your piece is not a counterfeit of the 1965 issue as they are on the market.
I sent this one with it and they looked the same but it doesn't say imitation ?
CERT VERIFICATION #37927800
According to the PCGS Certification Database, the requested certification number is defined as the following:
PCGS Coin Information
PCGS #
596776
Date, mintmark
1965
Denomination
S Peso
Variety
X#M4
Country
Cuba
Grade
PR67CAM
Holder Type
PCGS Gold Shield
Population
2
Pop Higher
0
Very strange and misleading that "modern imitation" would be added to the label. As insider noted it's a design used since the 19th century, but it has the actual date when it was produced. Calling it a modern imitation would be correct if it was produced in 1965, but dated 1897. In this case it doesn't make sense.
Edit: I did a little follow-up and the catalog does seem to suggest that the first PL one is an imitation of the second coin. The original is also modern, so that was a bit confusing. Couldn't find any info on when the supposed imitation was struck or the context behind its creation. Oddly they have the same catalog value, though clearly not the same market value.
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
yep that's what I found in a nutshell and was wondering if anyone else had any additional information or could direct me as where to find it.
It is actually just a 1965 medal. It has no denomination. It clearly says it is a "souvenir".
so what you're telling me is this is the Cuban version of a So Called Dollar?
It was apparently made in the US so it should probably be included as a US So-Called Dollar if it fits the size requirement. These were anti-Castro pieces.
Ken, based on quick research on NumisMaster it appears there are three different types of this coin, distinguished by edge description (reeded, plain, lettered). Each of this type weighs 29.79g and is 38.94mm in diameter. There is a sub type (it also appears to be the scarcest) of the plain edge, that's slightly smaller 38.3mm in diameter (British Assay Office hallmark).
There is also an imitation type that weighs 29.34g and is 38.9mm in diameter so it's slightly smaller than the regular type. The imitation exists in reeded, plain, and lettered edge types.
One other thing I forgot to add. Regular type is proof, while imitation is prooflike.
If it has a British hallmark then it wasn't made in the US and wouldn't qualify as a So-Called Dollar. What is the story behind the imitation? Why and when and where were they struck?
This is starting to get complicated trying to price a few coins for the show lol Would there be anyone specializing in these at the ANA money show in Pittsburgh this week?
The 1965 Souvenir you have is an original so PCGS got it wrong, Those coins are proof not proof like and were minted in NYC by Cubans in Exile. If you look at heritage coins under 1965 Cuba Peso you will see a little over 30 sold in past auctions. PF 66 worth about $300 and PF 67 around $500 the ones you see for high price over $1000 are PF 68 very rare to find in that grade. They are very collectable and you should have no problem selling them.
What makes you think they got it wrongs as all they had to do was weigh and measure it ? Is there something on the design that leads you to that conclusion ?
I believe the "original" Souvenir Peso was produced in 1897, so maybe they consider the 1965 ones to be modern copies?
It was:
Having said that, it appears that specifically around the 1965 issue, there were multiple strikes / re-strikes that are cataloged as either an "original" Cubans in Exile striking, or a copy of it.
8 Reales Madness Collection
yes and what I'm understanding from drake is that what PCGS slabbed as X#16 ( modern restrike ) is in fact an original 1965 exile peso and I was trying to find out how he arrived at that conclusion.
He may have been referring to the second coin rather than the OP, or at least I would hope so
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
The XM #16 portrait face bit thinner and IA on PATRIA touch and AD on LIBERTAD touch. Also font bit different. On reverse the Stalk is thicker on shield and does not taper down as in original.
You may be correct under the microscope the diagnostics match up with one of the proofs ( die polish marks of the obverse ) Can PCGS check and verify this from the true views?
I just sent an email off to our host let's see what the verdict is
Picture of XM #16 NGC grades all the Souvenirs the same. As XM #16 came in all three styles very confusing for collectors that do not specialize in this coin. I own many of these coins so have been able to study them for long time and know the difference. Weight may be off on originals as they were privately minted and Quality control not as good as in the mint. But they are two different coins so once you know them clear as night & day.
This pair selling raw on Ebay right now starting bid around $600 for pair in original boxes. Both are the real thing one reeded and one plain edge. I have original advertisement for these coins from 1965 they were $12.50 each including leatherette box you see in the picture. They have come a long way. Mintage is around 5000 total with a little over 450 of the lettered edge ones. The XM #16 no one knows mintage and that is why I stick to collecting only the real ones. So good for you that you have the real coin.
I have the boxes also one is reeded and one is plain edge
Ken, will you have the coins in Buffalo this weekend?
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
sure I'll throw them in the bag so you can check them out
I have two of these somewhere - no cases though. Did they all come in the cases? I have two different types - I guess different edges, but the design has slight variations as well. I got them in the early 1980s.
I also have another one - maybe made of nickel, in a smaller diameter.
BTW - the eBay ones in the cases....am I the only one who thinks hey have been dipped? How could they stay that clean all these years in those cases?
Yours have nice toning the ebay ones have been dipped but I do not think that will alter the grade at NGC maybe at PCGS?
The nickel one if smaller probably the 1987 Souvenir Peso or 5 Peso from Cuba. All original 1965 Souvenir coins in case tarnished and some were in PVC plastic envelope so have some damage so I would think that most shinny ones have been dipped.
Best way to sell the 1965 Cuba Souvenirs is through Heritage or Ebay. Just with Ebay cannot mention Cuba or it will get pulled. 1965 Caribbean Souvenir Peso or Patria Y Libertad Souvenir Peso will get it seen by buyer & bidders. Pf 65 NGC one sold for $377 on ebay and their is a XM #16 graded as real one by NGC as PF 69 UC Lettered Edge selling for around $3400 but price too high so coin not being sold.
Welcome drake
This is the XM#16 graded correctly by PCGS but that does not happen often.