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I pulled the trigger on a Huguenot.

keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I have always liked this design and as of late I've been enamored with the Dutch settling of New York and the area/history around Albany. I think I could live there, so it is right for me to be a little jealous of RickO. I visited there all to briefly during the summer of 2018 with my GF and found the City to be quaint, very architecturally artistic, cosmopolitan and yet only minutes from rural beauty.

U.S. coinage and medallic tribute to the area and the Dutch settlers is quite prolific. I have several medals but this is the first strictly coin related item I have bought. I tend to move slowly with a new purchase and looked at this one for a few weeks. My only concern is that it may be a little darker than these seller pictures show. The seller is a well known dealer so I'm not worried, I expect it will be close. The surfaces look clean and free of anything distracting and I suppose the tone is from a long while in an album of some type. The reverse especially shows a hint of nice color at the rim around 3 o'clock.

Tell me what you think about the coin, about the Dutch settlers, about Albany and about the prospect of living not to far from RickO!! :D Sleep easy, my friend, I'm not about to move any time soon. :)

Al H.


Comments

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Overall, it looks like a nice coin with an original appearance. The light speckling is a minor distraction (to me), but on the other hand, the luster and flash look to be considerably above average for a Huguenot.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • CommemKingCommemKing Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely original. Looks like there could be a lot of luster under the tone. A little crusty for me personally, though.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like crust, especially on pizza and pies.........................and coins if it ain't too heavy. I'm anxious to hold this bugger in my hands.

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I glanced at that, but couldn't get any sort of feeling what it would look like in hand from DLRC's cartoon like photography.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the in-holder pictures look flooded but this cropped one looks OK. I bought from them a number of years ago, maybe 12-15 and it was alright. we shall see, in about 4-5 days. I'll try to post some of my own pictures.

  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice example, Al. The toning fits. Not like the toning usually found on these and the Long Island.

    Nice grab!

    Cheers

    Bob

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    thanks Bob, the Long Island is sort of similar and I think you're right about how the two usually look. someone like Frank above would be better informed on that, but don't they most often look creamy-white RickO approved?? I have another one saved in My eBay that's in an old no-line fatty but it looks to have toned a bit too dark and if the supposition about those holders is correct it may continue to get darker.

    does anyone else have a toned Huguenot to post??

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am from Albany, NY born and raised there.
    Cool coin and the right time to buy.
    Theme? History and coins with ships on them.

    Very nice coin.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good acquisition Al.... More tarnish than I would prefer....However, the strike is great and it is for your collection. As to moving here... You would be welcome, although it is mainly a coin desert....We would spend a lot of time looking at each others collections... :D ... Look forward to your pictures...Cheers, RickO

  • BGBG Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A nice example.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You would be welcome, although it is mainly a coin desert....We would spend a lot of time looking at each others collections... :D

    where's that laughing icon when I need it!!

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,567 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since most of the US commemoratives like this were made only a couple generations ago, and represent some great aspects of US history, it would be good to hear from old timers on their impressions on coins like this. The Huegenots were fleeing religious persecution apparently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenots George Morgan designed the coin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenot-Walloon_half_dollar Nice coin.

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like it! Crust is good! :)

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's LI typical crust...

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets,

    Nice coin. I like the look.

  • CommemDudeCommemDude Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2021 2:55AM

    Most of these are monochromatic, light gold, light grey or light blue or untoned.
    Album toned is about the best you will find with this issue, and there are only a few monster coins out there
    Heres one that I picked up and paid no premium for color

    Dr Mikey
    Commems and Early Type
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,558 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The commems are really underappreciated. I mean, some of them have uninspired designs (BTW, I'm looking at you). But some of them are really nicely done, like the Huguenot coin, Pan-Pac, San Diego, etc.

    It is really interesting to me that these are so unpopular. I mean some of them - 2 million+ Columbians - are common. But look at some of the mintages of what are CHEAP ($100-ish in UNC) coins:
    Maine 50,028
    Maryland 25,015
    Rhode Island 50,034
    Robinson-Arkansas 25,265
    Cleveland 50,030

    Even some of the multi-year issues have relatively low total mintages with $100 examples available of the more common years:
    San Diego 100,224 (both years combined)
    Boone 87,187 (all years combined)
    Arkansas 85,302 (all years combined)

    By themselves, I'd say "so what", but people do line up to pay $55 for modern silver dollar commemoratives that have mintages of 100,000+. Are there really not enough of those people willing to pony up for a Maryland? TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND TOTAL MINTAGE!

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    jm, I think you highlight a disconnection with some in the Hobby that on the surface doesn't make sense. in part it's because Commem's are intended as a non-circulating coin so some snub them for that reason and it seems to take newcomers a while to "discover" the series because of the NCLT issue. i only own a handful but I find myself always looking at them.

    SC$'s and Commem's have one thing in common that's a draw for me, the many varied designs.

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like it! I like the issue and the toning on this particular piece. I grew up a bit further north in Oswego... Albany was the big city.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,558 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    jm, I think you highlight a disconnection with some in the Hobby that on the surface doesn't make sense. in part it's because Commem's are intended as a non-circulating coin so some snub them for that reason and it seems to take newcomers a while to "discover" the series because of the NCLT issue. i only own a handful but I find myself always looking at them.

    I think the NCLT point is a good one. Maybe we need a marketing campaign aimed at that group. LOL.

    I wonder if the U.S. Mint might not help out if they were to start issuing modern commems linked to the classics. We are just getting to the century mark for a lot of them - missed Pan-Pac, LOL - but if they did a 2020 Maine bicentennial coin in 100,000 mintage for example, it could really drive interest in the 1920 Maine centennial coin. You've got a lot of issues in the 1920s whose centennial is coming up.

    On the moneclip thread, there's a whole lot of hand-wringing about the loss of the High Relief Saint - mintage 13,000. I wonder if those people would be at all upset with a money clip made out of a Hudson or Spanish Trail commem - mintage only 10,000.

    TEN THOUSAND - FOLKS!!!

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I tend to like the Boone's and some of the individual date/MM combinations are quite low, under 5,000. it's interesting that no one complains about these low mintage coins but they will calmly explain why the 1994 SMS Jefferson Nickel isn't a worthy coin to be collected.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,558 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    I tend to like the Boone's and some of the individual date/MM combinations are quite low, under 5,000. it's interesting that no one complains about these low mintage coins but they will calmly explain why the 1994 SMS Jefferson Nickel isn't a worthy coin to be collected.

    1939 P,D,S Oregon Trail are only 3,000 each.
    1938 PDS Boone are only 2,100 each.

    Not that you need collect by date/MM, but your point is valid about the scarcity of these.

    It is one of the things that makes me wonder about how deep the pool of collectors actually is. I mean, of US collectors you're going to have X% that care about commems. Commem prices have dropped which means one of two things (since there's no new supply): either X is decreasing or the number of U.S. collectors is decreasing.

    If you think about these relative to far more common coins struck for circulation and even adjusting for survivorship in UNC, it just might be that these are the canary in the coal mine. 10,000 Hudsons in existence and not enough demand to hold or push the price. For something like a 16-D dime where the TOTAL survivorship might be 10 or 15 times the mintage of the Hudson, X is much bigger and so the price drop in circ 16-D dimes is not as obvious...yet.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pheww! I read the title of the thread and I thought you shot someone. :o

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's a nice piece!

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • MitchellMitchell Posts: 551 ✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @keets said:
    I tend to like the Boone's and some of the individual date/MM combinations are quite low, under 5,000. it's interesting that no one complains about these low mintage coins but they will calmly explain why the 1994 SMS Jefferson Nickel isn't a worthy coin to be collected.

    1939 P,D,S Oregon Trail are only 3,000 each.
    1938 PDS Boone are only 2,100 each.

    Not that you need collect by date/MM, but your point is valid about the scarcity of these.

    It is one of the things that makes me wonder about how deep the pool of collectors actually is. I mean, of US collectors you're going to have X% that care about commems. Commem prices have dropped which means one of two things (since there's no new supply): either X is decreasing or the number of U.S. collectors is decreasing.

    If you think about these relative to far more common coins struck for circulation and even adjusting for survivorship in UNC, it just might be that these are the canary in the coal mine. 10,000 Hudsons in existence and not enough demand to hold or push the price. For something like a 16-D dime where the TOTAL survivorship might be 10 or 15 times the mintage of the Hudson, X is much bigger and so the price drop in circ 16-D dimes is not as obvious...yet.

    My two cents on this zombie thread:
    I used to collect classic silver commems (and the memorabilia) so I have some insights into this market.
    Collecting the modern NCLT commems in someways are a no-brainer: you give your money to the Mint and you get a really nice MS68-69-70 collectible.

    Now compare the buying experience of a classic commem over the last hundred years (lol). You had to find the right association that sold the commems (it wasn't the Mint) and the scarcity was often manipulated (I'm talking about you Boone, Oregon, BTW, WashCarv and more). Consider the quality standards of the Mint back then compared to cornucopia of today's proof gems. If you were to buy a classic commem today, only the bold (ie well-educated) and/or foolhardy would buy a classic commem uncertified. Even then, it's a given that many white classic commems have been given a market acceptable "treatment".

    For a new collector, it seems like a no-brainer: you know what you're getting when you buy NCLT commemoratives from the Mint. Pricing is transparent (mostly) and the quality will be very high and definitely unaltered. Contrast the buying experience of a classic commem: the variables and variability is daunting: white and/or toned, what grade, which dealer(s) or venue(s), etc.

    Successful BST: dmwjr, ike126, bajjerfan, morganman94, sonoradesertrat, 12voltman, duiguy, gsaguy, gsa1fan, martin, coinfame, zas107, bothuwui, gerard, kccoin, jtwitten, robcool, coinscoins, mountain_goat, and a few more.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,291 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2021 5:50PM

    @keets said:
    Tell me what you think about the coin, about the Dutch settlers, about Albany and about the prospect of living not to far from RickO!! :D Sleep easy, my friend, I'm not about to move any time soon. :)

    The Dutch have a big influence in the Albany area, and the Van Rensselaers were a big part of it. They had over 1 million acres, which is larger than the state of Rhode Island! Of note, Herman Melville and Edith Wharton were part of the extended family.

    Wikipedia editors wrote:
    The Van Rensselaers were of Dutch origin, and the family originally migrated from the Netherlands to a large area along the Hudson River in the present-day area of Albany, New York. The Van Rensselaers and other patroons named this young colony New Netherland. Many members of the family were active in politics and in the military. They are best known for the Rensselaerswyck estate of roughly a million acres, which although broken up by the Anti-Rent Revolt in the 1840s, had long cemented the Van Rensselaer family as one of the wealthiest in early America.

    Herman Melville, a descendant of the Van Rensselaer family, mentioned them in the first chapter of his novel Moby-Dick: "It touches one's sense of honor, particularly if you come of an old established family in the land, the Van Rensselaers, or Randolphs, or Hardicanutes." Edith Wharton, a Van Rensselaer cousin, is said to have based the Van der Luydens in The Age of Innocence on the Van Rensselaers.

    The following photos are from Wikipedia which is linked above.

    This is where Kiliaen was born:

    A portrait of Stephen:

    And a photo of General Henry Bell:

    Here's a map of the family's land which was over 1 million acres:

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,291 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2021 5:51PM

    Wow, Stephen Van Rensselaer is the 22th richest person of all time according to the following article on CelebrityNetWorth.com:

    The Richest Human Beings Of All Time – #22: Stephen van Rensselaer – Who Was He And How'd He Earn His Fortune?

    Paula Wilson wrote:
    When you adjust for inflation, Stephen van Rensselaer is the 22nd richest human being that ever lived. When the United States was still forming, the Europeans who settled here, ran here, or were shipped here, often found their fortunes in one of two ways. They either earned it–through savvy trade, thievery, luck, or some combination of the three. Or they were born into it. In the case of Stephen van Rensselaer, the former combined with the latter to make for a net worth of $68 billion. One of the first large-scale landlords in U.S. history, and an active politician, van Rensselaer took a single family estate and grew it into a property empire. Here's the story of how one man took a family investment and put his family on the financial map for all time.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2021 10:17AM

    Thanks @winesteven and @Zoins for the additional examples! @winesteven I like the rim toning on there - I thought you were more of a bright white/ @ricko kind of guy!

    Any more examples out there?

    @Mitchell - I read your post with interest. But, I do enjoy the "classic" commems more than the new ones. In part because I like the older production techniques - look how deep the Vermont commem is! And, I like the toning conveyed by mailers or storage so that you can find some unique looking coins. The modern commems all look pretty much the same to me. Just no thrill of the hunt for me.

    But hey, each series has some cool coins, and some dogs. I stopped trying to collect all from the series - just the ones that I like!

    My current "Box of 20"

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2021 6:41PM

    While as a generalization for my 20th Century silver I do indeed prefer the coins to look like they did when they first came off the press, just as the designer envisioned they would look, I’m also ok with slight toning. The key for me is to have my coins highly lustrous! So while I recognize my coins are very likely to have been dipped at some point in the past, apparently it was done gently enough that even CAC still applies their sticker to each of my coins, as a ton of luster is usually still present.

    I recognize my taste is not that of most “knowledgeable” dealers and collectors, but there is a large but silent group of collectors like me! I know this, as there is voracious bidding I often encounter in auctions on mid to high grade coins with CAC’s that I like.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • robdb80robdb80 Posts: 2 ✭

    Hi guys, this post is why I joined the forum. I recently acquired a Huguenot and wanted to share my find. I can honestly say though, that my pictures don't give the patina on this coin justice. How do you take pictures to show off the patina quality? And how do you embed photos... the photo link above the post box didn't seem to work.

    https://ibb.co/gvv2h6j
    https://ibb.co/MGDdYd5

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2022 4:23PM

    Congratulations @robdb80 . Lovely example! Enjoy!

    I believe you have to have been a member for a certain short period of time, and/or a certain number of “legitimate” posts to be able to post photos using the icon at the far right above the text box. I also gave you a “Like” if that helps get you approved to post photos.

    Welcome!

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,291 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @robdb80 said:
    Hi guys, this post is why I joined the forum. I recently acquired a Huguenot and wanted to share my find. I can honestly say though, that my pictures don't give the patina on this coin justice. How do you take pictures to show off the patina quality? And how do you embed photos... the photo link above the post box didn't seem to work.

    https://ibb.co/gvv2h6j
    https://ibb.co/MGDdYd5

    Welcome to the party!

    As @winesteven said, you may need a few posts before you can directly post images. Once you have the posting icon, it's very straight forward.

    For now, here are your images.

    Nice coin!

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • robdb80robdb80 Posts: 2 ✭

    Thanks guys, I can honestly say that I bought this because I had never seen anything like it and the price was way too good to pass up. The artwork on this makes me want to look for more commemoratives now.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @robdb80 said:
    Thanks guys, I can honestly say that I bought this because I had never seen anything like it and the price was way too good to pass up. The artwork on this makes me want to look for more commemoratives now.

    Having completed my Dansco 7070 Registry Set, I started looking for a new interesting set. After doing some research, like you, I found the 50 Coin Classic Silver Commemorative Type Set filled with many gorgeous designs, and fascinating stories behind them! Many collectors bash this series due to price drops over the decades, but closer looks show that in general prices have stabilized a few years ago, and in some cases have started rising. But most of us don’t collect for the main reason of financial gain, but instead collect for the beauty of the coins and their interesting history!

    robdb80, Go for it!

    Here’s a hotlink to my digital Classic Commem Silver Type Set:

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/commemoratives/silver-commemoratives-50-piece-type-set-circulation-strikes-1892-1954/album/189058

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Man, what happened to the OP, Keets? Looks like he is banned. Another long term member jettisoned to the dark web
    😔

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The price of Classic Commoratives has only slightly moved up in the last two years. I think this is where the PCGS Registry offering the 50 coin set (not giving credit for the better varieties) and then leaping to the 144 coin set isn't helping the collecting of Classic Commemoratives. Many collectors decide to go for the least expensive coin of each type.

    For a collector thinking of spending $59,763 on a 144 coin set in MS 65 it is a little mind boggling. And that creates eight boxes of 20 with some rather inexpensive low mintage coins. Putting together a 50 coin type set for $29,283 seems a little more reasonable. And $19,298 in MS 64 is even more reasonable. However, once that set is completed and a ongoing interest is there, a 55 coin set including the Grant Star, Alabama Star, Missouri 2X2, double date Boone & Pilgrim coins, as suggested by David Hall in past years, would be a logical next step for the Registry. After that one could do a date set with every year represented. Suddenly, a 144 coin set doesn't seem to be so unreachable. So add two more categories to the Registry - a 55 coin & a date set.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    Man, what happened to the OP, Keets? Looks like he is banned. Another long term member jettisoned to the dark web
    😔

    The Sports Forum happened.

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    The commems are really underappreciated. I mean, some of them have uninspired designs (BTW, I'm looking at you).

    I disagree on Booker T Washington. I've always found the reverse inspiring - "FROM SLAVE CABIN TO HALL OF FAME." While my early American ancestors weren't slaves, they lived in log cabins.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,291 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2022 8:23PM

    @DisneyFan said:
    The price of Classic Commoratives has only slightly moved up in the last two years. I think this is where the PCGS Registry offering the 50 coin set (not giving credit for the better varieties) and then leaping to the 144 coin set isn't helping the collecting of Classic Commemoratives. Many collectors decide to go for the least expensive coin of each type.

    For a collector thinking of spending $59,763 on a 144 coin set in MS 65 it is a little mind boggling. And that creates eight boxes of 20 with some rather inexpensive low mintage coins. Putting together a 50 coin type set for $29,283 seems a little more reasonable. And $19,298 in MS 64 is even more reasonable. However, once that set is completed and a ongoing interest is there, a 55 coin set including the Grant Star, Alabama Star, Missouri 2X2, double date Boone & Pilgrim coins, as suggested by David Hall in past years, would be a logical next step for the Registry. After that one could do a date set with every year represented. Suddenly, a 144 coin set doesn't seem to be so unreachable. So add two more categories to the Registry - a 55 coin & a date set.

    Smaller Registry Sets will help in multiple areas with different designs, like classic commems, patterns, So-Called Dollars, Civil War Tokens, and others.

    If David @homerunhall suggested it, I wonder why it wasn't done.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    If David @homerunhall suggested it, I wonder why it wasn't done.

    Unfortunately, he only suggested it in his marketing materials to sell coins.

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's one of mine.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • WiscKauWiscKau Posts: 169 ✭✭✭✭

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin, excellent history of Rennselear and early NY. Thanks. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

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