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Is this the first certified / graded Dan Carr piece by ATS?

ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,287 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 8, 2023 3:38PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Just ran across this Panama Pacific International Exposition centennial in an ATS slab. Does PCGS certify this as well?

Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
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  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Awesome piece :blush:

  • SweetpieSweetpie Posts: 483 ✭✭✭✭

    Not yet from PCGS as far as I know.

    I wondered why NGC didnt acknowledged or designated a D. Carr or his mint on this label?

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was a bidder on that one. I've owned ngc graded Carr pieces before.. but the holder did not say D Carr on it.

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is the one I owned. I sold it a year or so ago... sometimes I wish I still had it!
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/DANIEL-CARR-NGC-SAMPLE-SLAB-SARASOTA-COIN-CLUB-2013-SET-SILVER-COPPER-BRASS/113689323688?hash=item1a786968a8:g:H3EAAOSwGhFcecD9:sc:USPSPriority!42702!US!-1

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe the TPGS didn't know he issued the token. Ar there any Carr pieces in NGC slabs with his name on the label?.

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a 1964 Peace he made in an old NGC slab that they accidentally graded as a real coin.... does anyone remember that? It may have been a dream, lol.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,287 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the photos @jwitten. To me, the Sarasota Coin Club pieces seems more like in a custom, non-graded, sample slab. I never saw grades for any of those.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    slippery slope.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jwitten said:
    I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a 1964 Peace he made in an old NGC slab that they accidentally graded as a real coin.... does anyone remember that? It may have been a dream, lol.

    You may be thinking of the "photoshop" job I did for April Fools day. It was produced a few years before I made any "1964" Peace over-strikes.

    Moonlight Mint
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Just ran across this Panama Pacific International Exposition centennial in an ATS slab. Does PCGS certify this as well?

    This is the first NGC-graded "Carr" item that I have seen.

    The only other similar items in NGC holders that I am aware of are the ungraded Sarasota Coin Club medals.

    Moonlight Mint
  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @jwitten said:
    I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a 1964 Peace he made in an old NGC slab that they accidentally graded as a real coin.... does anyone remember that? It may have been a dream, lol.

    You may be thinking of the "photoshop" job I did for April Fools day. It was produced a few years before I made any "1964" Peace over-strikes.

    I'm pretty sure I've seen another out there. Still, could be a dream or my imagination :D

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,287 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @Zoins said:
    Just ran across this Panama Pacific International Exposition centennial in an ATS slab. Does PCGS certify this as well?

    This is the first NGC-graded "Carr" item that I have seen.

    The only other similar items in NGC holders that I am aware of are the ungraded Sarasota Coin Club medals.

    It's nice that this one has a grade. Hopefully it's one of many to come!

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,287 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 28, 2021 11:45PM

    2015 Panama Pacific International Exposition 100th Anniversary - Copper, Antiqued - Mintage: 14 - by Daniel Carr - Ex. Terry Carver

    Here's a new pickup to keep images of these 2015 PPIE Anniversary pieces together. This may qualify for a PhotoVision now per above, but it would be great to get a TrueView :)

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The major TPGs are really leaving money on the table but not actively slabbing Mr. Carr's work. There are enough collectors to make a ton of cash doing so, and Dan's own reference is available on line for attribution.
    In my opinion, ANACS is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    The major TPGs are really leaving money on the table but not actively slabbing Mr. Carr's work. There are enough collectors to make a ton of cash doing so, and Dan's own reference is available on line for attribution.
    In my opinion, ANACS is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

    I agree. I am brand new to DC restrikes. To date I own zero ANACS items but that is soon to change (fingers crossed). They are wise to holder these.

    Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
    $5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
    CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    The major TPGs are really leaving money on the table but not actively slabbing Mr. Carr's work. There are enough collectors to make a ton of cash doing so, and Dan's own reference is available on line for attribution.
    In my opinion, ANACS is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

    Approximately how many potential coins in total are you talking about?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And it's a real shame, because ANACS has the ugliest holder out there.
    If I were into Carrs I'd just keep them raw.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @DCW said:
    The major TPGs are really leaving money on the table but not actively slabbing Mr. Carr's work. There are enough collectors to make a ton of cash doing so, and Dan's own reference is available on line for attribution.
    In my opinion, ANACS is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

    Approximately how many potential coins in total are you talking about?

    Does it matter, Mark? He has an extensive reference with many varieties. This is found money for PCGS and NGC.
    And conversely, it would lend credibility to Mr. Carrs's work as a medalist. I know it is not the TPGs to do that, but it is a subsidiary effect.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:

    @MFeld said:

    @DCW said:
    The major TPGs are really leaving money on the table but not actively slabbing Mr. Carr's work. There are enough collectors to make a ton of cash doing so, and Dan's own reference is available on line for attribution.
    In my opinion, ANACS is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

    Approximately how many potential coins in total are you talking about?

    Does it matter, Mark? He has an extensive reference with many varieties. This is found money for PCGS and NGC.
    And conversely, it would lend credibility to Mr. Carrs's work as a medalist. I know it is not the TPGs to do that, but it is a subsidiary effect.

    It might matter to the grading companies. Perhaps they don’t feel that they’re leaving much money on the table and/or they have other reasons for not wanting to accept the coins for grading.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @DCW said:

    @MFeld said:

    @DCW said:
    The major TPGs are really leaving money on the table but not actively slabbing Mr. Carr's work. There are enough collectors to make a ton of cash doing so, and Dan's own reference is available on line for attribution.
    In my opinion, ANACS is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

    Approximately how many potential coins in total are you talking about?

    Does it matter, Mark? He has an extensive reference with many varieties. This is found money for PCGS and NGC.
    And conversely, it would lend credibility to Mr. Carrs's work as a medalist. I know it is not the TPGs to do that, but it is a subsidiary effect.

    It might matter to the grading companies. Perhaps they don’t feel that they’re leaving much money on the table and/or they have other reasons for not wanting to accept the coins for grading.

    Perhaps, but it would provide a service to the hundreds of people that actively collect these medals and go elsewhere.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:

    @MFeld said:

    @DCW said:

    @MFeld said:

    @DCW said:
    The major TPGs are really leaving money on the table but not actively slabbing Mr. Carr's work. There are enough collectors to make a ton of cash doing so, and Dan's own reference is available on line for attribution.
    In my opinion, ANACS is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

    Approximately how many potential coins in total are you talking about?

    Does it matter, Mark? He has an extensive reference with many varieties. This is found money for PCGS and NGC.
    And conversely, it would lend credibility to Mr. Carrs's work as a medalist. I know it is not the TPGs to do that, but it is a subsidiary effect.

    It might matter to the grading companies. Perhaps they don’t feel that they’re leaving much money on the table and/or they have other reasons for not wanting to accept the coins for grading.

    Perhaps, but it would provide a service to the hundreds of people that actively collect these medals and go elsewhere.

    When a company is able to capture a customer's business in one area, that company can sometimes gain the customer's business in other areas as well.

    Moonlight Mint
  • philographerphilographer Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @DCW said:

    @MFeld said:

    @DCW said:
    The major TPGs are really leaving money on the table but not actively slabbing Mr. Carr's work. There are enough collectors to make a ton of cash doing so, and Dan's own reference is available on line for attribution.
    In my opinion, ANACS is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

    Approximately how many potential coins in total are you talking about?

    Does it matter, Mark? He has an extensive reference with many varieties. This is found money for PCGS and NGC.
    And conversely, it would lend credibility to Mr. Carrs's work as a medalist. I know it is not the TPGs to do that, but it is a subsidiary effect.

    It might matter to the grading companies. Perhaps they don’t feel that they’re leaving much money on the table and/or they have other reasons for not wanting to accept the coins for grading.

    I had three 1964 Peace dollar tokens graded by PCGS in April/May. Love the coins and the gold shield holders. Since then, no more have been graded. The pops remain at 3. I wanted mine TrueView-ed and graded, but it doesn’t look like there’s yet been a rush by others to get theirs graded.

    He who knows he has enough is rich.

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,720 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe pcgs doesn’t grade them because many of his works are damaged and unrecognizable coins. PCGS rarely holders stuff like that

    11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:
    Maybe pcgs doesn’t grade them because many of his works are damaged and unrecognizable coins. PCGS rarely holders stuff like that

    Doesn't PCGS and NGC slab CWT's that are overstruck on US coins?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • philographerphilographer Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:

    @MFeld said:

    @DCW said:
    The major TPGs are really leaving money on the table but not actively slabbing Mr. Carr's work. There are enough collectors to make a ton of cash doing so, and Dan's own reference is available on line for attribution.
    In my opinion, ANACS is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

    Approximately how many potential coins in total are you talking about?

    Does it matter, Mark? He has an extensive reference with many varieties. This is found money for PCGS and NGC.
    And conversely, it would lend credibility to Mr. Carrs's work as a medalist. I know it is not the TPGs to do that, but it is a subsidiary effect.

    The U.S. mint and other government mints produce various “unique” issues with populations of 100,000 or 250,000 every few days. These are “found money” for the grading services. Add in various labels and first strike designations and you have more found money. It seems that it might be relatively costly to take on more a more complicated path of identifying and grading issues with populations of less than 1,000, or less than 500.

    He who knows he has enough is rich.

  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,526 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2021 7:24AM

    @DCW said:
    And it's a real shame, because ANACS has the ugliest holder out there.
    If I were into Carrs I'd just keep them raw.

    I like ICG for my Dan Carr's,,,,, and their holder is attractive.

    GrandAm :)
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,287 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2021 7:32AM

    @Crypto said:
    Maybe pcgs doesn’t grade them because many of his works are damaged and unrecognizable coins. PCGS rarely holders stuff like that

    PCGS can recognize Dan's pieces just fine:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1057239/my-daniel-carr-1964-d-peace-dollars-have-been-graded-by-pcgs/p1


    Dan has a web catalog but I'm thinking perhaps PCGS needs a print one, so I've started thinking about one :)

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1062148/daniel-carr-moonlight-mint-catalog-in-print-idea#latest

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @Crypto said:
    Maybe pcgs doesn’t grade them because many of his works are damaged and unrecognizable coins. PCGS rarely holders stuff like that

    PCGS can recognize Dan's pieces just fine:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1057239/my-daniel-carr-1964-d-peace-dollars-have-been-graded-by-pcgs/p1

    Dan has a web catalog but I'm thinking perhaps PCGS needs a print one, so I've started thinkng about one :)

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1062148/daniel-carr-moonlight-mint-catalog-in-print-idea#latest

    Amazing items @Zoins . Thanks for sharing.

    Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
    $5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
    CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2021 12:59PM

    @PerryHall said:

    @Crypto said:
    Maybe pcgs doesn’t grade them because many of his works are damaged and unrecognizable coins. PCGS rarely holders stuff like that

    Doesn't PCGS and NGC slab CWT's that are overstruck on US coins?

    Clearly I was talking in generalities on both the PCGS side and D Carr side. I am still bewildered by the number of hobbyists who embrace his fakes using mental gymnastics to justify buying his art/forgeries. I concede his talents as a technician & engineer and even his art. But last I checked there is only one place that can make US coins and he isn’t it. The 64 peace dollars are clear forgeries and I suspect that colored the rest of his stuff in my eyes after that. Fantasy coins is a cute term for fake

    11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2021 3:16PM

    I collect some Carr Art.
    I support his fantasy coin art by voting/paying with my depreciating dollar bills.
    Lindy

    @Crypto said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @Crypto said:
    Maybe pcgs doesn’t grade them because many of his works are damaged and unrecognizable coins. PCGS rarely holders stuff like that

    Doesn't PCGS and NGC slab CWT's that are overstruck on US coins?

    Clearly I was talking in generalities on both the PCGS side and D Carr side. I am still bewildered by the number of hobbyists who embrace his fakes using mental gymnastics to justify buying his art/forgeries. I concede his talents as a technician & engineer and even his art. But last I checked there is only one place that can make US coins and he isn’t it. The 64 peace dollars are clear forgeries and I suspect that colored the rest of his stuff in my eyes after that. Fantasy coins is a cute term for fake

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,106 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @Crypto said:
    Maybe pcgs doesn’t grade them because many of his works are damaged and unrecognizable coins. PCGS rarely holders stuff like that

    Doesn't PCGS and NGC slab CWT's that are overstruck on US coins?

    Clearly I was talking in generalities on both the PCGS side and D Carr side. I am still bewildered by the number of hobbyists who embrace his fakes using mental gymnastics to justify buying his art/forgeries. I concede his talents as a technician & engineer and even his art. But last I checked there is only one place that can make US coins and he isn’t it. The 64 peace dollars are clear forgeries and I suspect that colored the rest of his stuff in my eyes after that. Fantasy coins is a cute term for fake

    I've always enjoyed your opinions yet this time I humbly disagree.

    peacockcoins

  • CopperWireCopperWire Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2021 3:18PM

    @Crypto said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @Crypto said:
    Maybe pcgs doesn’t grade them because many of his works are damaged and unrecognizable coins. PCGS rarely holders stuff like that

    Doesn't PCGS and NGC slab CWT's that are overstruck on US coins?

    Clearly I was talking in generalities on both the PCGS side and D Carr side. I am still bewildered by the number of hobbyists who embrace his fakes using mental gymnastics to justify buying his art/forgeries. I concede his talents as a technician & engineer and even his art. But last I checked there is only one place that can make US coins and he isn’t it. The 64 peace dollars are clear forgeries and I suspect that colored the rest of his stuff in my eyes after that. Fantasy coins is a cute term for fake

    It comes down to intent and representation. You have a lonely opinion but you are entitled to it. My suggestion is to pick up a Redbook and do some research on similar coin series, there are many examples from the past. If you really want to go deep, I can send you some information about Liberty Dollar and how a federal judge helped clarify the details of what is counterfeit and what is not.

    The irony of your statement lies in your username. There are many people who refuse to value cryptocurrency, but many of us do, including the IRS. Knowledge is power, informing yourself will help alleviate your fear of Dan Carr's minting process.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,106 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Once silver (or any other minted metal) is mined and forged out of the ground and turned into a round disk, the collecting worth or appeal simply then lies in what interests you.
    If sticking with only government minted items are attractive, I can see if privately minted items would have no appeal. I pick and choose what is interesting to me.
    For example, I don't find the government minted SBA a collectible I would chase after, yet I do find the D. Carr Moonlight minted Peace dollars of interest.
    I also do enjoy collecting government minted Standing Liberty quarters and find the D. Carr Moonlight mint
    quarters and such of no interest.
    We all pick and choose. I'd only suggest you don't force a limitation on what may actually be fun for you if you gave it an opportunity.

    peacockcoins

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