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HK-876 Denver Mint Opening Gold Plated

As a medals and tokens collector, I was able to acquire this piece from a long-time advanced collector. I thought i'd share it here for all the exonumia ("outside numismatics") collectors.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2017/05/1905-medal-celebrates-the-opening-of-the-denver-mint.all.html

So-Called Dollar Collector

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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Supposedly there was also a silver version produced.
    I once saw one certified by NGC as the silver issue, but it looked silver plated to me.
    That is the only supposed silver example that I have seen.

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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is the gold-plated one certified as ?

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    HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pioneer said:
    As a medals and tokens collector, I was able to acquire this piece from a long-time advanced collector. I thought i'd share it here for all the exonumia ("outside numismatics") collectors.

    https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2017/05/1905-medal-celebrates-the-opening-of-the-denver-mint.all.html

    A piece of numismatic history. Thanks for sharing @Pioneer.

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    Aspie_RoccoAspie_Rocco Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fascinating story and coin. I was not aware of this issue or history. Thank you for sharing.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,874 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:
    What is the gold-plated one certified as ?

    PCGS certified it as HK-876b as shown here:

    https://www.pcgs.com/cert/37747372

    Notably this number is not in the HK Guide or the HK New Discoveries section so it appears both PCGS and NGC may be assigning HK numbers without working with the HK authors?

    Any info on HK-876b and other PCGS assigned numbers @jonathanb?

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    illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting, I have never heard of one of these being gold plated. Not sure how anyone can determine that such plating was actually done by the Mint at the time of issue and not afterwards by someone else... either near the time of minting or much later. Not unless there is some Mint documentation or other contemporary record of such a piece being made.

    One of the silver versions of the medal was sold in the Weber Collection sale in 2008. The catalog lists it as an NGC AU58 and the catalog description lists it as possibly unique.

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    illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought this one at one of the Long Beach shows last year from a customer who sold it to me raw. Always liked these medals and the history behind them. We both thought it was probably mint state and NGC barely agreed giving it an MS61BN. Tough medals to grade!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxULfuZx48E
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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    since it was issued by the Mint and documented it should have some type of record that could be traced back to. absent that I would lean towards it being plated after issue in the manner of the large Norse medals, just on a much smaller scale, perhaps only one or a few.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting piece of history.... I wonder how many were made and given out during the ceremony? Most were likely lost as minor souvenirs through the years. Cheers, RickO

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,874 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2019 7:14AM

    If it can’t be determined whether plating is original or after the fact, is grading done as market acceptable or not?

    I’d love to see this in hand.

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    thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @illini420 said:
    Interesting, I have never heard of one of these being gold plated. Not sure how anyone can determine that such plating was actually done by the Mint at the time of issue and not afterwards by someone else... either near the time of minting or much later. Not unless there is some Mint documentation or other contemporary record of such a piece being made.

    One of the silver versions of the medal was sold in the Weber Collection sale in 2008. The catalog lists it as an NGC AU58 and the catalog description lists it as possibly unique.

    Luster. Very different look between something plated before or after striking. Look at an 1883 NC Racketeer nickel.

    thefinn
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    thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    If it can’t be determined whether plating is original or after the fact, is grading done as market acceptable or not?

    I’d love to see this in hand.

    I think that if they can't tell, they won't certify it.

    thefinn
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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thefinn said:

    @illini420 said:
    Interesting, I have never heard of one of these being gold plated. Not sure how anyone can determine that such plating was actually done by the Mint at the time of issue and not afterwards by someone else... either near the time of minting or much later. Not unless there is some Mint documentation or other contemporary record of such a piece being made.

    One of the silver versions of the medal was sold in the Weber Collection sale in 2008. The catalog lists it as an NGC AU58 and the catalog description lists it as possibly unique.

    Luster. Very different look between something plated before or after striking. Look at an 1883 NC Racketeer nickel.

    Actually, I disagree in part.
    It depends on how thick the plating is.
    If it is very thick like what you would see on a gold-plated pocket watch case that is subjected to handling and wear, then yes, it would look different after the plating.

    But most gold plating is more like a "gold wash" and is really only a few atoms thick.
    I have gold-plated a silver blank and then struck it.
    I have also struck a silver blank and then gold-plated it.
    Comparing both under a high-magnification microscope, there was no way to differentiate the two.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I recall the Denver Mint opening medals being all copper --- but my memory could also be wrong. The documentation might be available via NNP in the correspondence NNP had digitized.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2019 9:59AM

    @Zoins said:
    If it can’t be determined whether plating is original or after the fact, is grading done as market acceptable or not?

    I’d love to see this in hand.

    Actually, 99% of the time it can! In fact, it is usually not hard at all.

    Let's keep this EDUCATIONAL Now I'm going to let you guys think about it and post some of the ways to tell. Hopefully Mr. Carr and the other experts here will not reply right away.

    If you know for sure, just post I KNOW. Then in a few hours the experts can answer.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    BUMP!

    How can you tell if a coin is plated AFTER it was struck?

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    jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Neither NGC nor PCGS have contacted me. I don't believe they've contacted any of the other editors of the HK book.

    A silver was example was sold by Presidental (6/21/1996, lot lot 144). It was described as 22.3 grams, which is quite a bit heavier than the 17-ish gram weight of most normal versions, so I'm comfortable believing that it was solid silver and not plated.

    I have several sale records for gold plated examples. I don't know if those records represent more than one actual example.

    I also have a worn example that shows the remains of silver plating.

    I'm reluctant to comment on plated versions as being "real" or not without some consensus for how to tell if the plating is contemporary or applied later. I have gilt examples of several early So-Called Dollars that "look good to me" but are not listed in the book because I have nothing to support the idea that they truly are contemporary.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,874 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2019 12:17AM

    I've been really puzzled by this thread because I can sometimes see the TrueView in the OP but not other times.

    I finally took a look at the image link and noticed it's a TIFF image which likely cannot be processed by many browsers.

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/eg/f3n3eyu1gcnk.tiff

    Here's a JPEG which should be viewable everywhere:

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    TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    Let's keep this EDUCATIONAL .

    yes, Daddy

    Frank

    BHNC #203

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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Luster. Very different look between something plated before or after striking. Look at an 1883 NC Racketeer nickel.

    I don't think medals are "plated" before being struck in the sense that we are speaking of. in that description the term "gilt" would be more proper and that would entail a different process. if this medal is plated that would almost certainly be electro-plating, but the picture above looks gilt.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,874 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2023 2:13PM

    Here's a bronze for comparison.

    No silver at PCGS yet, but there's a silver NGC AU58.

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    kruegerkrueger Posts: 805 ✭✭✭

    I have documentation proving Audree Bebee plated Bronze Wilson Dollars In silver. He was also buying an selling them.
    There are gold plated Wilsons known . I own one and have seen others. Possibly also some plated in Brass,
    Unproven yet, Begs the question did he have other medals plated also??

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