Jacques Wiener's Notre-Dame Cathedrale De Paris medal

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum. This is actually my first post! I have seen some discussion here about J. Wiener's cathedral serie. I want to show you guys the Notre-Dame medal that I have just bought. I know most of you guys don't like the shiny, re-toned surface. However, I bought it at a very cheap price that I just couldn't control myself LOL. Please tell me how much do you guys think this medal might worth. I want to see if I really got a good deal or not. Many thanks!

P.S. This medal came with this blueish-greyish dirt( or patina perfaps?). It came off when I scratch it with a needle. However, I really don't want to hurt the surface so I gave up. Any good idea how to get rid of it? Thanks a lot!






Comments

  • TT

  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 726 ✭✭✭✭

    The bluish grey stuff looks like polishing compound stuck in the devices. Try a soak in acetone?

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  • Thank you scubafuel! Since acetone can only remove organic deposit, I guess this bluish grey stuff is organic?

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, the stuff in the recesses is likely polish and should not be hard to remove. Don't use any sort of sharp object. So far as value goes I can't comment. The polishing will greatly reduce the value but by how much is pure speculation since you are dealing with a thin market to begin with. In the future I would avoid purchasing medals with problems. The previous owner's problem has now become your problem.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • ZoharZohar Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great detail in these. I see polishing lines and a major rim hit on the top medal above the "DAME". I agree that its worth waiting for a better specimen.

  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭✭

    Since you asked. I would think it difficult to get more than $20 or so for that example.
    I have sold some pretty nice ones for $100.

  • dxd1995dxd1995 Posts: 16
    edited March 13, 2019 11:25PM

    @Flatwoods said:

    I have sold some pretty nice ones for $100.

    Could you please give me some hints where to buy Wiener's medal? I have seen some on Ebay but they are all around $400. Or do you sell them online? Thanks!
    @Flatwoods

  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭✭

    Ebay is still the best place. They don't show up as frequently as they used to but pop up occasionally.
    Lots of lesser pieces and plenty of fakes so be careful.
    If you see something and would like an opinion feel free to message me.
    I won't be competing as my set is nearly complete. Is there any medal in particular that you are looking for?
    A very nice medal will run anywhere from $200 for the common ones to $1500 for the key piece.
    Lesser but still very nice medals can be had for less.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't overpay. They do turn up. Just wait until you find nice ones at nice prices. Many medal dealers price their medals very high in the hope they can find that elusive "gotta have it now" collector with more money than sense.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • dxd1995dxd1995 Posts: 16
    edited March 14, 2019 5:42PM

    @Flatwoods Thank you for the advice! You guys are so friendly to a newbie! :) Generally I'm looking for any Wiener Cathedral serie medals other than the one I have (gonna keep this one a little while). I don't need it to be super rare or in "uncirculated" condition. Any piece that is not completely "worn out" should be fine for me.

    My current goals are: Oscar Roty's helmet Marianne (all sizes), Wiener's cathedral serie and Dupuis's Le nid/La source medals. When I get my new Marianne medal delievered to me, I will post it too :D

    Also, I will try to merge it in acetone tonight. Will post the result later!

  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭✭

    If you run across any that look like this and you don't want them, let me know. :)

  • dxd1995dxd1995 Posts: 16
    edited March 14, 2019 6:03PM

    @Flatwoods https://www.ebay.com/itm/183679907650
    This one has been up for a long time. I guess you probably have already seen it? Is it the price or is it the tone?

  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭✭

    It is a very nice medal. I have the piece already or I would be tempted.
    I think it is priced a little aggressively but not overly so. Nice ones are getting scarce.
    The seller is a member here and has nice stuff.
    He also has another nice one for sale or did recently.
    You could sign up for his email alerts. He won't spam you and he has these frequently.
    For what its worth, I have purchased from him before and was quite satisfied.

  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭✭

    Since we are on the subject. :)
    I do have a few reservations about the piece you linked.
    Maybe he will chime in. It could be educational.

  • @Flatwoods I found their website at https://www.numismagram.com/
    However, I couldn't find email list sign up link. I do find their social media links. How can I sign up their email list? Thanks!

  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭✭

    Buy something. ;)
    That's how I did it. I'm sure you could email Jeremy and ask.
    He may be along shortly.

  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭✭
  • numismagramnumismagram Posts: 63 ✭✭✭

    Hi---sorry, I didn't see this until just now. There isn't really a way to sign up directly to my mailing list, @dxd1995, but contacting me through the email address on my site works fine. You can also just send me a message on here with your contact info and I'll add you. I send out a brief newsletter at the beginning of each month when I add new items, and occasionally mid-month if I happen to have a mini upload. Here's a link to the mini that I sent out earlier today, for an example: http://shoutout.wix.com/so/0dMc2BTlx#/main

    In terms of price, the longer I've had an item, generally the more I can work with discounts, especially if paying by check. Any way I can work around eBay and/paypal fees is preferable.

    If you have any questions on the Milan one, @Flatwoods, just let me know. I also have a Burgos one that is a new purchase and not yet imaged, but it's not really of the same quality as some of the others which I have/have had, so it may not be of interest. I can send you an image once I have it ready.

    Jeremy Bostwick

    For exceptional works of medallic art, check out our current inventory at Numismagram!

  • @numismagram Thank you for your reply! I have just sent you a PM with my email. Your newsletter is very interesting and informative!

  • KnellKnell Posts: 146 ✭✭✭

    @dxd1995

    Welcome to the forum. Early last year, I bought a Wiener medal (St. Paul Cathedral in London with French Legend) and after that I got hooked with any high relief/3D design medals especially by Wieners. I now have more than 12 Wiener medals and still watching a few on eBay. The photos below has 11 Wiener medals and 1 from J. Davis (Lichfield Cathedral). The Wiener medals I have not included in the photos are non cathedral medals.

    If you haven't been on this site, visit .....
    http://www.historicalartmedals.com/MEDAL WEB ENTRIES/THUMBNAILS/BELGIUM/WIENER-EUROPEAN CATHEDRALS/brand new thumbnails.htm

    Ben Weiss collection has a lot of info on cathedral medals.

    Also here is an email I got from an expert regarding Wiener medals.....

    Congratulations on acquiring a Wiener cathedral medal! Did you happen to purchase the recent one listed on eBay? I had noticed
    a French legend specimen offered not too long ago.
    So a little history - By February 1853 Jacques Wiener had begun the decision process for which English cathedrals he would
    include in his "Most Remarkable Edifices of Europe" series (known now colloquially, though somewhat incorrectly, as his
    "cathedral medals"). He relied on English artist Henry Mogford for advice and assistance in this regard. By October of that year
    Wiener had selected the five cathedrals to be depicted (St. Paul's, York, Winchester, Westminster Abbey, and Lincoln) and had
    started the engraving of St. Paul's. By the end of December he had struck some unknown quantity of the medals and shipped
    these to Elkington & Co. in London in January. Ultimately there were three distinct varieties struck. The reverse die used by
    Wiener was actually a two-part die - the main body of the die which included the interior view, and a separate exergue die which
    contained all of the reverse legends. The two dies were held together by a retaining ring. The first variety has the word
    "CENTURY" spelled out in full at the end of each of the first two lines of the inscription. The exergue die began to badly crack,
    necessitating a new exergue die. This second exergue die contained legends in French rather than English. Personally, I believe
    this was an error and this exergue die was replaced relatively quickly with a new exergue die having the more appropriate English
    legends. This third die is most readily identified by "century" at the end of the second line of the inscription being engraved as
    "CENTY" This exergue die also ultimately suffered a multitude of die cracks and chips. The likely culprit was that the exergue die
    was too thin (~3-4mm) and could not withstand the punishment inflicted by being (presumably) the hammer die. The sequence of
    the varieties can be established by examining the progression of die erosion/failure in the main body of the reverse die which was
    common to all three varieties.
    The French legend variety is the scarcest of the three varieties, followed by the initial variety, and with the final variety being the
    most common. So you have done well in acquiring the French legend variety.
    If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

    Again welcome and have fun collecting.

    @numismagram I sure would like to receive your newsletter, just tell me what to do.

    @flatwoods thanks for sharing, I would like to see more photos of your medal collections if you don't mind.

    Thanks.

  • numismagramnumismagram Posts: 63 ✭✭✭

    I'll be having some new Wiener architectural types in my next upload for May. If anyone else is interested in receiving this newsletter, just send me your email address and I will sign you up. Here's a teaser of some of the items for next week...

    Jeremy Bostwick

    For exceptional works of medallic art, check out our current inventory at Numismagram!

  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭✭

    @Knell said:

    @flatwoods thanks for sharing, I would like to see more photos of your medal collections if you don't mind.

    Thanks.

    Sorry. I have ben busy and haven't visited much.
    I really need to sit down and photograph the whole set so they have a consistent look.

    I'll dig up a few.





















  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭✭

    Sorry for the bad pics.
    A few more.





  • KnellKnell Posts: 146 ✭✭✭

    @Flatwoods
    Thanks. Nice collections. I have a long way to go to obtain your cathedral samples.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is a great thread. I will be referring back to it. Thanks to all of you who offer insight. These medals are truly magnificent.

  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭✭

    these medals are amazing!!

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