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Vintage breaks 55 bowman pack
remedylane
Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
They cracked open a PSA 7 pack of 1955 bowman tonight. I sometimes watch out of morbid curiosity. That was a rough one. All the cards were stuck together and moldy. No stars, 3 umpire cards. Not sure how much spots were, but yeah.. rough.
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Spots were $650 each. Because they were so bad they gave everyone that bought in a free spot in a random hit that is $200 a spot with a chance to win a PSA 1 52 Mantle. But, if you don't hit something good in that, you end up with some gum stained common Bowman and possibly some $5 PSA card from the hit random as well. I wish the best of luck to folks spending their hard earned money, but I don't mind that it happened. With the scarcity of some of these packs, I hope it deters people from paying for spots in future breaks so some of these packs can stay sealed, as they should.
Man I have a tough time with this topic. Packs were made to be busted. Period. However, I totally get the must preserve crowd. I guess this crowd needs to open their wallets a little more to acquire this stuff?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I Think it's a real struggle. In my opinion, it's hard to know what to pay for some of it. You might make a bid you think is way too high only to get outbid by someone who plans on ripping it for double the purchase price. I think there is going to be what I would consider an adjustment in the market if it hasn't started already. And I will say that I get your point on packs were meant to be broken. I used to feel that way until recently. Cows are meant to be eaten as well....until there's only two left. Would we then auction them to the highest bidder to be cut up into $700 T-Bones and $50/lb ground beef??
Being a beginner in the unopened crowd, I'm starting out at a horrible time. Just picking up stuff here and there that I think are decent deals. I don't have much at this point. I'm all for starting an unopened collectors club/group that you must only sell rare, unopened stuff to other members that promise...as you would, not to open or sell to someone for the purpose of opening. Easier said than done, I know but it would be nice if something like that could actually work. This is the dream world that I live in!
Wow I’m a rookie unopened dude too. I love it. I’ve made a initial effort over the past couple months. Sounds like we share the same lane.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I have no problem with people ripping packs that are plentiful and readily available, but it is a shame when people rip these old packs that have so few left. There is very little upside to ripping a pack like this. The chance that you pull a card that makes it worth the rip is slim to none.
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This....EXACTLY
It wasn’t mentioned but this same organizer previously did a break on 1955 Bowman and someone pulled a Mantle that graded PSA 9.
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
Yep, I'm sure they'll be talking about that pack for years to come....right before opening multiples of moldy stained vintage packs. I'll put the over/under at 14 days before that video is poofed.
Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks.
Prefer to buy in bulk.
In the end it's a choice and I fault nobody nor criticize for making that choice. Like I said earlier, if people want this stuff to stay unopened they need to open their wallets more and mouths less.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
there are about 49 of these packs on the psa pop report...i guess one less now.
I am in the "rip it" camp, but items like this that are such extreme rarities, I would keep sealed.
An honest question: is there no way to detect mold in a vintage unopened pack? I would think you could smell it? is that ever done before holdering and if not should it be? If mold were to be detected, shouldnt it be reflected as so on the flip?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I am thrilled that this is happening (OK not really). Its blaphsemous -- did I spell that right?-- there is nothing we can do of course. As an avid vintage unopened collector I hate that my niche of the hobby is now on full overload. Years ago when the unopened market really exploded--what 5-6 years ago?--we were checking the BBCE website 100 times a day. Remember that? How many labor hours were lost--lol. Even after that explosion prices stabilized and came down a bit. Now that the rippers have hit the market prices are getting out of control. Or maybe late investors. I personally feel that I am priced out of the market on many of these packs. And for some I am willing to pay a hefty price--but man have prices exploded.
Like someone else said--it will not be long before some of us hard core unopened collectors consign/sell their stuff at these prices. Way back when guys like me were paying $150 for a '67, '68 and on wax pack. Or maybe $150 for a 60 cello. What a premium profit that will bring and when it can pay for a college education--or new kitchen--or a nice new pool--Hi Keith!--well you never know when collections might be let go of....
1954 and 1955 Bowman are more ripe for mold than others because many of the packs are from a Mr Mint barn find in Tennessee where they were stored horribly. Some were infested with bugs. Many of the best boxes (over 200 were found) were opened at the time. Many of the worst had to be discarded. This is all pieced together from things I have read over the years because I love ‘55 Bowman. Others may be able to correct if I am wrong.
Cool story. Would love to read more.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Anyone have the link? I can't seem to find the video anywhere.
I don't have the link readily available, but go to youtube, then search vintage breaks. It's part of their archived "live" viewing from last night. The video is a few hours long, so you will have to fast forward. The good news is that they put the pack they are breaking at the bottom. It's a couple of hours in, and broken by "Mike". Wears glasses, blue dress shirt.
I watched this am eating my breakfast and found it this way.
Please update the thread title with a warning to cpamike to not read it.
For the record, I did not start this thread to slam vintage breaks. I have no dog in the fight. I've actually came close to buying in on some of the cheaper breaks in the $30 range just out of sheer fun. But I also agree about preserving things like 1950s and 60s era packs. I dont even see how any will survive with all the vintage breaking going on. A lot of it is a product of folks wanting to cash in on higher end graded cards.
For about 2 seconds I felt bad for the folks that shelled out money, but then quickly realized that it's their money to do with as they wish. And of course its total luck whether or not you get something decent. But going in I think you have to realize you likely won't get a card worth $650. And you also know the gum card is likely ruined off the bat. So out of 9 cards, 8 are useable. Even If not for the mold the value of the cards in that pack wasn't very much at all. Maybe $200-$300? Just seems like a very high risk low reward situation.
Another thing I've pondered is that I have no idea how PSA or anyone could guarantee some of these older packs as untampered with. Glue and adhesives break down over the course of 50-75 years. Pack wrappers hold their shape after that long as well.
So again, I meant no offense to anyone at all. Hope none was taken.
It's hard to believe the prices they are getting per card these days exceed what we could buy an entire pack for just a few short years ago.
it was BRUTAL!!!
look like someone microwaved the pack, let that wax and gum residue seep into each card
BIGLEAGUE SportsCards
"Respect The Hobby"
www.bigleaguesc.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/bigleagueseller
1989 Upper Deck Low # baseball. $3/spot(yes, I know you have to include shipping but does anyone just buy 1 spot??) That's $45/pack. Do the math on that and it's $1620/box!!!! Those can be purchased for what...$120/box on average? I need a profit margin like that!
You could get a low number pack from bbce for $4. A 10 second look on eBay shows Kruk Cards selling a low series FASC box for $163.29, or $4.54 a pack. If you can find vintage breaks online you can find eBay and BBCE. I don’t even know how this is a thing.
are buyers of these spots this uninformed or lazy that they dont see those type of insane profit margins?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Does the spot on an UD series 1 pack come with PSA grading? If not that is just crazy beyond comprehension.
1989 Uppder Deck is now $1620 a box?!
I have to look now...
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
$3 per spot in search of the 1989 Upper Deck Jose Uribe card.
buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
You really can get caught up in the moment and basically it is just gambling. I bought in a times knowing full well that I wasn't going to come out ahead but that it was just for the entertainment value. I have resigned myself to pretty much doing just set breaks from time to time. I will not get into what I consider a "vintage" packs anymore and not that I was ever willing to pay $200+ for a single spot.
watched it
the best part was when the 55B pack looked at that dude and said, "yo, this is what you get for opening me"
What did the PSA 9 Mantle pack say to the busting dude?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
"congrats on winning the power ball twice in one day"
For those who didn't see this at the National last year?
55B cello rip:
Sound is awful but my favorite?
I watched a video on Youtube from justripit.com in which he opened a 1960 pack...not sure if this guy knows much about cards and collecting...here are some of the comments he made, and there were plenty more headscratchers in the hour-long video:
"PSA may not discount print defects cause it's not the fault of the card"
-- one card had a big piece of paper missing on the back and he said it could cost it in the grading process..
there were no HOF'ers in the pack, and he said they didn't know back then who was going to be in the HOF when the pack was created
EPIC. I watched this when it went down!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Have the pop reports started going down as these packs are cracked or are they still not notifying PSA?
That will happen only if the flips are returned to PSA, which doesn't usually happen.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
They claim they turn them in but some people have stated before they haven't seen the pops reduced. Either because they aren't actually sending them in or PSA was taking a long time to remove them. I can't confirm either.
The thing is though that I don't see the Vintage Breaks business slowing down anytime soon. For comparison, except for hitting a jackpot, everyone knows that visiting a casino is basically a money losing proposition, but the allure of a jackpot, keeps 'em coming back. The allure of getting a Mantle or another superstar card in high grade, will probably keep 'em coming back as well.
I also think that folks should sometimes think this thing thru a little bit. I forget the exact break, it was some months ago, a cello there were 12 slots on an item, and this one buyer grabbed 10 of the slots. I checked Ebay, and the same PSA graded series pack had recently sold for way less than the cost of the 10 slots. The buyer could have just bought one entire unopened cello pack on Ebay much cheaper, gotten 12 cards instead of 10, and busted it himself. 🤷
It is a bit odd to me.. at the national, cameras rolling, dude even says "make sure you are recording were about to make history". Low and behold the second card is the Mantle.. I mean come on....
Fast forward to last week, 55 bowman pack, not at the national, and it's all garbage moldy commons.
I am not making any accusations.. just saying it strikes me funny and my, how convenient..
He saw the card already. He peeked at it underneath the next card it and covered it back up I do believe. That was a legit pull.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Both packs were PSA graded...
The Cello pack that the Mantle came from was card 19 of 20 in the pack. The video shown was a snippet of the 30 minute video. Link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ZrxCQwtF4
Ernie Banks was also pulled approximately card 7 and several cards in the cello achieved the highest recorded grades or equivalent in PSA holders after the break.
I agree with this in theory, but at the Casino, the odds are clear, concise and transparent. With some of these pre-60 vintage breaks, there are still many unknowns that aren't being disclosed, and the window of impropriety is large. Would be like playing black-jack and the dealer flips over a joker or a moldy 14. Only a matter of time before someone lawyer's up on one of these expensive breaks. I do agree it will be a weak case, but isn't that 75% of the legal world anyway.
Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks.
Prefer to buy in bulk.
Makes more sense now.
To rip or not to rip is similar to the discussion several years back when cards began to come out with memorabilia swatches. The camps back then basically stated either that is was a terrible action to cut up a historic bat/uniform/etc., or that it was cool to own a card with a piece of memorabilia once used by a legend as most people couldn't afford one of those intact items.
Similar again to the idea of tearing down an old historic building district in anticipation of a a new and exciting multi-use space. I guess it boils down to people valuing things differently.
I don't know that there is any right or wrong answer as both sides of these arguments offer valid points for their beliefs. Personally, I tend to lean towards the "historic preservation" side of the argument, but I also cannot deny the excitement that was brought to the hobby when the Mantle was found in the '55 Bowman pack at the National. To each their own, I guess.
Too late. See, I tell you guys all the time "packs are our friends, we should not open packs."
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Apparently it's not "ok" to tell others that packs have a known sequence as that is bad for business. That can apparently get you banned from some ripping sites!
This interweb thingy is for sharing what I ate today and where I am at all hours and to get constant reinforcement that someone likes me or what I am doing but that's it!!! Sharing other information is strictly forbidden!
Kris
My 1971 Topps adventure - Davis Men in Black