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Where has all the proof gold gone???
WHPRATT
Posts: 114 ✭✭✭
We've heard the stories from one major dealer about all the proof gold being bought up by Japanese collectors, or even acquired for the Hansen collection, but those two sources can't possibly remove the entire current populations of proof gold.
And I am not talking about impaired or circulated, or details proof gold type, I am talking about the PCGS + CAC real stuff. You can find some late date gold dollars, and a few 2.50's, but the larger dominations have simply vanished from the current market.
Thoughts?
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They are in 'permanent' collections.
We'll see them in ten or more years
BHNC #203
Multiple dealers and collectors have pointed out that we went through a period where great proof collections were sold (i.e Garrett, Eliasberg, Trompeter, Pittman, etc) and it made a lot of proof gold look much more available than it really is. Once those collections were sold the true rarity of these coins has become apparent.
The rarity of these coins has not changed.
The present availability has changed.
We need to be careful not to confuse the two.
Some proof gold has been moved in private transactions and not overseas or DLH. All PCGS/CAC.
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That is exactly my point. There are not many of these coins. Because a bunch of great collections were sold relatively close in time it made it "appear" that these coins were more available than they are.
I handled alot of proof gold last year. Its definitely out there- you just need to know whom to go to when looking.
The recent increase in, and improvement in quality of information about brilliant, satin and sandblast proof gold coin has likely led to closer examination and tighter control over the limited supply. Specifically, I refer to John Danreuther's series on US proof coins and my own book on Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles.
I guess PCGS non-CAC and NGC +/- CAC aren't the "real" deal. I learn so much from the forums.
hey, two plugs in one thread when the simple answer is that there never was much Proof Gold as others have said. Ms. Legend told us this was going to happen and where it was going, again covered in the thread already.
joebb, please define a lot for us in general numbers.
Doug Winter just published an article on Proof Gold today:
https://raregoldcoins.com/blog/2019/2/21/soyouve-decided-to-collect-proof-gold
...Gone to collectors every one, when will we ever learn, when...:(
And at least one proof $20 a few years ago as well. 😊
I have probably handled at least 40 pieces of mostly Gem Proof Gold in the last year. The coins are out there, you just have to be willing to pay the price!
On another note we have had two pieces of raw proof gold come into the shop, both about two years ago. Really neat experience.
Back in the 1970's I had a proof 1900 and 1905 $2 1/2. They would probably grade 66 Cam today. They were a very had sell at $1700. I wish that I had kept them.
Interesting article. Some beautiful coins depicting. At this moment ( and probably forever) a little rich for this collector but one never knows what the future holds.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Sure hope this thread doesn’t go prooof.
They are indeed beautiful coins... and one can understand why they are tightly held once acquired. Eventually, they all come to market though....Cheers, RickO
Well said,
I hope they do come back I’d like to pick up a proof liberty and a proof Saint for my double eagle collection
about 10 gold dollars
about 10 $2.5 including indian in pcgs pr67..
5 $3 pieces
4 $5 pieces
4 $10 including one of the most beautiful pieces that I just loved (1866 $10 pcgs pr66+dcam)
4x $20's
I could be off a little but I would say about 30 pieces in 2018.
Sold a couple already in 2019 and have 6x pieces for sale right now...
Purchasers of proof sets were often very particular about the quality of the coins they received. Note, Mr. John Kimball Wiggin's comment at the bottom of page 1 and top of page 2:
“…I suppose it is unnecessary that I suggest that each piece should be put up separately in paper, and very securely packed, in order to insure safe carriage; but the value and beauty of them depends upon their entire freedom from scratches, or finger marks. I shall thankfully pay any extra charge for such packing and selection, that I may get them in perfect order….”
Mr. Wiggin's calculation was a little off on the 12 silver sets. These were $2.50 for silver and the cent, plus $1.08 for a gold dollar, total $42.96. The 2 hybrid sets would have cost $28.54 for both. His order was actually $158.54 leaving him a little short in payment.
Joebb: I was underbidder in a HA auction of a really nic 1878 twenty graded PR64D in a 2009 HA auction. I believe it went for 75K all in which would be a bargain today being twenty minted, fewer survivors and second finest graded. I am unaware of this oiece being traded since. A piece I regret not stepping up to get!
Of course the problem with being an under bidder is you have to always wonder if an added bid would have secured the item or simply set the stage for a bidding war with the price getting out of hand anyway.
Northcoin: That is true. And unfortunately I had stretched to obtain another 'big' coin-a 31-D Saint which I did win. In my 20/20 hindsight, I would have been more agressive on the proof lib, more so than on the Saint.
Estimated survival of a 1931-D double eagle is 125 in all conditions.
Estimated survival of any specific year of brilliant proof Liberty double eagles after 1858 is less than 20.
FACT: in the 1990's a HUGE amount went to Japan. There was one guy who fly in to the big shows, hit certain dealers who would buy up all they could. We sold them an GEM 1891 PR set-all 66-67 Cameo once. They ONLY bought flashy cameos or ultra cameos. My guess is they spent north of $50,000,000.00.
Get this-they also bought up all the MS65 and higher CC DMPL's!!!!!
I can tell you this, I just sold a $20 1910 PCGS PR66 CAC-never made the market. All MY PR Gold $10+20 never make the open market.In Dec we sold 2PR $20 Libs in high grade. We rarely see PR Gold any more
Last Simspon has a complete PCGS PR65 and higher 1885-1915 PR Gold set. Many are PR 67!!!
Is Simpson's set viewable online?
Thank you for all of your comments - great info here!
I dunno if Simpsons set can be seen. There are many sets we never posted-just too much work