I see no rush to spend money on what is a no question PL coin. Guess I don't need PCGS to tell me what I already know.
For those who'd like to see it in a PC holder, I'll accept grading fee donations. Just PM me for my PayPal address.
I’ll pay the grading fee to cross it, but only if you allow me to submit it under my account.
@rainbowroosie said:
Save your money to buy wine at FUN.
Oh my, decisions, decisions.
Guess it's time for the rest of the story:
So, after many comments and Gary's (ilikemonsters) offer to pay the grading fees (I would have reimbursed him) I sent the NGC MS67PL to Gary for crossover submission at the Vegas show. Well, it didn't quite make it. Soon after it arrived in Somewhere, MI around October 22 the USPS carrier was involved in an accident and it never delivered.
My 7x9 Addressed Envelope was enclosed in a Priority Mail package with the clear front window. The accident caused great injury to the USPS carrier. Yes, there was blood, much blood per the USPS. Since the package, and other mail was deemed a bio-hazard it was contained and sent from the local PO in Somewhere to the Regional Center in Pontiac, MI
I've been working with the USPS since October 24th to locate the package. Thus far it's not been located.
The Somewhere, MI PO said it was being destroyed due to the bio-hazard.
That did not seem right so I began the search for the package with my local PO. They referred the search to the Jacksonville, FL Customer Center, who contacted the Regional Center in Pontiac, MI. They appear to have misplaced the bio-hazard container, saying some driver picked it up by mistake.
To date, some 4-1/2 weeks later no one can seem to locate the bio-container, or if they have the package was not been found.
This is but a brief history as there has been countless interactions with the USPS. We're hoping it was sent to the Mail Recovery Center in Atlanta, GA. That's where undelivered, damaged, and other misaddressed mail is sent in hopes of recovering and routing to it's destination, or back to the original sender.
It's hard to believe the USPS could not just unzip the Priority Mail Package, pull my Addressed Envelope out and send. How difficult can it be to put on latex gloves, a mask if necessary and sort through a container. That should take several hours, not going on four weeks plus.
I'm not giving up, but it does not look good so far.
Thus, I am filing the insurance clam. Although insured, the amount would not come close to what the coins potential value could be if graded as many who have seen the coin think it would.
Now you know the rest of the story...sort of.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
OMG that sucks!!!!! I am so sorry for your loss. You are due some good luck after that s-show.
V/r
Mike
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
You will have to stand up at the Roosie dinner and tell this story in person at Vito’s...then we will all drink a toast to the first Roosie deemed MIA.
"You keep your 1804 dollar and 1822 half eagle -- give me rainbow roosies in MS68." rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
@davewesen said:
ouch, hope it is discovered somewhere
maybe contact PCGS to invalidate cert in case someone finds and tries to sell it
Or maybe it could update the cert verification to give him his contact number. @HeatherBoyd
Thanks for the thoughts guy's. The coin was a former PCGS MS66; I crossed it to NGC at MS67+PL since they were the only service giving the PL designation on dimes at the time. I mailed it to ilikemonsteres to cross to PCGS since they were now recognizing the PL. Most all who had seen the coin believed it to be MS68PL worthy.
If it's ever found we'll see if PCGS agrees.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
You know Jim, about 15 years ago, I mailed a package via USPS to ANACS for variety verification. It got lost and I filed a claim and got my money back. Somehow, magically I guess, the coin ended up at ANACS, got graded and back to me. It took so long(almost a year, I think) that I forgot all about it! Mine must have gotten lost in the seat or something only to be discovered MUCH later. Your situation is different altogether! Hope it turns up.
Today, the USPS has denied my insurance claim for the lost coin. I insured the coin for the amount I was offered as it is graded, knowing I would not be able to prove value of an unknown hopeful upgrade to PCGS.
I'll send more docs to support the claim. If that fails we'll visit other options.
Any attorneys out there?
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
USPS insurance doesn't cover potential value or sale value. The fine print clearly explains that the value insured is items cost to shipper. You can only insure an item for the amount you paid with documentation (receipt, proof of purchase). I would assume this is why the claim was denied: " I insured the coin for the amount I was offered as it is graded."
@mynamespat said:
USPS insurance doesn't cover potential value or sale value. The fine print clearly explains that the value insured is items cost to shipper. You can only insure an item for the amount you paid with documentation (receipt, proof of purchase). I would assume this is why the claim was denied: " I insured the coin for the amount I was offered as it is graded."
So you're saying if one paid $5 for a raw roosie, had it graded at MS68FB with a new value of $2,500, shipped it, it got lost they will only now pay $5? Guess we'll just have to go to court.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
@mynamespat said:
USPS insurance doesn't cover potential value or sale value. The fine print clearly explains that the value insured is items cost to shipper. You can only insure an item for the amount you paid with documentation (receipt, proof of purchase). I would assume this is why the claim was denied: " I insured the coin for the amount I was offered as it is graded."
So you're saying if one paid $5 for a raw roosie, had it graded at MS68FB with a new value of $2,500, shipped it, it got lost they will only now pay $5? Guess we'll just have to go to court.
Proof of Value
Proof of value can include:
A sales receipt
A paid invoice or paid bill of sale
Statement of value and/or estimates of repair costs from a reputable dealer
A credit card billing statement
Receipt of costs incurred for reconstruction of non-negotiable documents
Printouts of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed
The fair market value for collectible stamps of philatelic value or for coins of numismatic value, determined as follows:
The fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers.
The date of the determined fair market value must be the most recent available (but before the mailing date).
@mynamespat said:
USPS insurance doesn't cover potential value or sale value. The fine print clearly explains that the value insured is items cost to shipper. You can only insure an item for the amount you paid with documentation (receipt, proof of purchase). I would assume this is why the claim was denied: " I insured the coin for the amount I was offered as it is graded."
So you're saying if one paid $5 for a raw roosie, had it graded at MS68FB with a new value of $2,500, shipped it, it got lost they will only now pay $5? Guess we'll just have to go to court.
Proof of Value
Proof of value can include:
A sales receipt
A paid invoice or paid bill of sale
Statement of value and/or estimates of repair costs from a reputable dealer
A credit card billing statement
Receipt of costs incurred for reconstruction of non-negotiable documents
Printouts of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed
The fair market value for collectible stamps of philatelic value or for coins of numismatic value, determined as follows:
The fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers.
The date of the determined fair market value must be the most recent available (but before the mailing date).
I do appreciate the information, thank you. But, it's sort of hard to have a "dealer" value a coin after the USPS lost it. I have reached out to NGC regarding the coin. They have been helpful.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
Jim. For the past 2+ years, I have served as the expert witness on numismatic valuation for the US Justice Dept. and Dept. of the Treasury, including testifying at trial on their behalf last month.
If you run into a problem with the valuation after NGC finishes helping you, let me know. Happy to help you. It would not surprise me though that your insurance claim will be approved after you receive your documentation from NGC and you submit it. In the unlikely event it is not approved, happy to write you a letter appealing their decision (and presenting a proper valuation amount).
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
Jim. For the past 2+ years, I have served as the expert witness on numismatic valuation for the US Justice Dept. and Dept. of the Treasury, including testifying at trial on their behalf last month.
If you run into a problem with the valuation after NGC finishes helping you, let me know. Happy to help you. It would not surprise me though that your insurance claim will be approved after you receive your documentation from NGC and you submit it. In the unlikely event it is not approved, happy to write you a letter appealing their decision (and presenting a proper valuation amount).
Wondercoin
Thanks Mitch, PM sent along with email.
It's really nice that others like Mitch reach out when assistance is needed. I'm very, very grateful.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
I see RED on this very thing with the USPS. If you insure something for 5K and pay the fee for 5K and they lose it. They should owe you 5K no matter what was in the package. It could have been a DOG TURD! You paid the fee...they lose it they OWE you the 5K........PERIOD!!!!! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
@DIMEMAN said:
I see RED on this very thing with the USPS. If you insure something for 5K and pay the fee for 5K and they lose it. They should owe you 5K no matter what was in the package. It could have been a DOG TURD! You paid the fee...they lose it they OWE you the 5K........PERIOD!!!!! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
Rant over!
I hope everyone understands how difficult it is with the USPS if they loose your coin, if it's one you've had awhile and have upgraded. Your going to have to prove it's VALUE, and you'd better have it in writing. Thus far it's not over. Guess someone should begin a thread on the Open Forum to advise those having never experienced the pain.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
@DIMEMAN said:
I see RED on this very thing with the USPS. If you insure something for 5K and pay the fee for 5K and they lose it. They should owe you 5K no matter what was in the package. It could have been a DOG TURD! You paid the fee...they lose it they OWE you the 5K........PERIOD!!!!! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
Rant over!
I hope everyone understands how difficult it is with the USPS if they loose your coin, if it's one you've had awhile and have upgraded. Your going to have to prove it's VALUE, and you'd better have it in writing. Thus far it's not over. Guess someone should begin a thread on the Open Forum to advise those having never experienced the pain.
Well all, my 1st Appeal to the USPS has been DENIED. That after providing Price Guidance from NGC, which graded the coin MS67*PL.
Folks, hope they never loose one of your pricey coins.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
Jim. I am traveling throughout Asia with spotty internet sometimes. Send me a PM here telling me the name and phone number of person at PO that denied your claim. I’ll call them first chance I get.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
Jim. I am traveling throughout Asia with spotty internet sometimes. Send me a PM here telling me the name and phone number of person at PO that denied your claim. I’ll call them first chance I get.
Wondercoin
Hello Mitch,
Thanks again, but it won't now be necessary for you to jump-in.
The USPS reversed their decision in denying my 1st Appeal, and is now paying the claim. At least that's some good news; better would be to have found the coin but will take it. However, my USPS advocate is still on top of the search.
I commend the USPS for doing the right thing.
Thanks to all who have been so supportive...
Merry Christmas,
Jim
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
This has been a very interesting read that’s for sure. Sorry to hear about your lost dime. Getting something back is better than a 100% loss, but ya just can’t get over the loss. Makes you feel empty, even though it’s just a little coin.
I really thought that I would revisit the thread and the coin was found and sent to PCGS with the hopes of a PL designation. Even im sad as I understand that even if the claim is paid out it doesnt replace the unique coin.. Im very sorry to hear about the whole ordeal..
Comments
Well Jim, How did this end
It ain't over, till it's over.
the die polish lines helped the coin get the PL
cleaned Unc details?
Sorry, not even close. But, I'll post the story for all to read tomorrow...it's a real turkey!
Guess it's time for the rest of the story:
So, after many comments and Gary's (ilikemonsters) offer to pay the grading fees (I would have reimbursed him) I sent the NGC MS67PL to Gary for crossover submission at the Vegas show. Well, it didn't quite make it. Soon after it arrived in Somewhere, MI around October 22 the USPS carrier was involved in an accident and it never delivered.
My 7x9 Addressed Envelope was enclosed in a Priority Mail package with the clear front window. The accident caused great injury to the USPS carrier. Yes, there was blood, much blood per the USPS. Since the package, and other mail was deemed a bio-hazard it was contained and sent from the local PO in Somewhere to the Regional Center in Pontiac, MI
I've been working with the USPS since October 24th to locate the package. Thus far it's not been located.
The Somewhere, MI PO said it was being destroyed due to the bio-hazard.
That did not seem right so I began the search for the package with my local PO. They referred the search to the Jacksonville, FL Customer Center, who contacted the Regional Center in Pontiac, MI. They appear to have misplaced the bio-hazard container, saying some driver picked it up by mistake.
To date, some 4-1/2 weeks later no one can seem to locate the bio-container, or if they have the package was not been found.
This is but a brief history as there has been countless interactions with the USPS. We're hoping it was sent to the Mail Recovery Center in Atlanta, GA. That's where undelivered, damaged, and other misaddressed mail is sent in hopes of recovering and routing to it's destination, or back to the original sender.
It's hard to believe the USPS could not just unzip the Priority Mail Package, pull my Addressed Envelope out and send. How difficult can it be to put on latex gloves, a mask if necessary and sort through a container. That should take several hours, not going on four weeks plus.
I'm not giving up, but it does not look good so far.
Thus, I am filing the insurance clam. Although insured, the amount would not come close to what the coins potential value could be if graded as many who have seen the coin think it would.
Now you know the rest of the story...sort of.
Wow...….that is horrible. Hope they find the package and it gets back to you. Anytime coins are in the mail it is scary to me.
OMG that sucks!!!!! I am so sorry for your loss. You are due some good luck after that s-show.
V/r
Mike
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Inconceivable.
......still processing...
You will have to stand up at the Roosie dinner and tell this story in person at Vito’s...then we will all drink a toast to the first Roosie deemed MIA.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
What a shocker, hoping the best out come for you!
Ken
My Washington Type B/C Set
ouch, hope it is discovered somewhere
maybe contact PCGS to invalidate cert in case someone finds and tries to sell it
What an incredible bummer. I’m so sorry.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Or maybe it could update the cert verification to give him his contact number. @HeatherBoyd
Thanks for the thoughts guy's. The coin was a former PCGS MS66; I crossed it to NGC at MS67+PL since they were the only service giving the PL designation on dimes at the time. I mailed it to ilikemonsteres to cross to PCGS since they were now recognizing the PL. Most all who had seen the coin believed it to be MS68PL worthy.
If it's ever found we'll see if PCGS agrees.
You know Jim, about 15 years ago, I mailed a package via USPS to ANACS for variety verification. It got lost and I filed a claim and got my money back. Somehow, magically I guess, the coin ended up at ANACS, got graded and back to me. It took so long(almost a year, I think) that I forgot all about it! Mine must have gotten lost in the seat or something only to be discovered MUCH later. Your situation is different altogether! Hope it turns up.
Yes, very interesting.
Today, the USPS has denied my insurance claim for the lost coin. I insured the coin for the amount I was offered as it is graded, knowing I would not be able to prove value of an unknown hopeful upgrade to PCGS.
I'll send more docs to support the claim. If that fails we'll visit other options.
Any attorneys out there?
Why did they deny it?
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
USPS insurance doesn't cover potential value or sale value. The fine print clearly explains that the value insured is items cost to shipper. You can only insure an item for the amount you paid with documentation (receipt, proof of purchase). I would assume this is why the claim was denied: " I insured the coin for the amount I was offered as it is graded."
So you're saying if one paid $5 for a raw roosie, had it graded at MS68FB with a new value of $2,500, shipped it, it got lost they will only now pay $5? Guess we'll just have to go to court.
Proof of Value
Proof of value can include:
https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm#domestic
The fair market value for collectible stamps of philatelic value or for coins of numismatic value, determined as follows:
https://about.usps.com/publications/pub122/pub122_v07_revision_092016_013.htm
I do appreciate the information, thank you. But, it's sort of hard to have a "dealer" value a coin after the USPS lost it. I have reached out to NGC regarding the coin. They have been helpful.
Jim. For the past 2+ years, I have served as the expert witness on numismatic valuation for the US Justice Dept. and Dept. of the Treasury, including testifying at trial on their behalf last month.
If you run into a problem with the valuation after NGC finishes helping you, let me know. Happy to help you. It would not surprise me though that your insurance claim will be approved after you receive your documentation from NGC and you submit it. In the unlikely event it is not approved, happy to write you a letter appealing their decision (and presenting a proper valuation amount).
Wondercoin
Thanks Mitch, PM sent along with email.
It's really nice that others like Mitch reach out when assistance is needed. I'm very, very grateful.
I see RED on this very thing with the USPS. If you insure something for 5K and pay the fee for 5K and they lose it. They should owe you 5K no matter what was in the package. It could have been a DOG TURD! You paid the fee...they lose it they OWE you the 5K........PERIOD!!!!! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
Rant over!
Ouch! This did not turn out the way I thought it would!
Good luck getting made whole!
I hope everyone understands how difficult it is with the USPS if they loose your coin, if it's one you've had awhile and have upgraded. Your going to have to prove it's VALUE, and you'd better have it in writing. Thus far it's not over. Guess someone should begin a thread on the Open Forum to advise those having never experienced the pain.
Yep, me either...
Well all, my 1st Appeal to the USPS has been DENIED. That after providing Price Guidance from NGC, which graded the coin MS67*PL.
Folks, hope they never loose one of your pricey coins.
Jim. I am traveling throughout Asia with spotty internet sometimes. Send me a PM here telling me the name and phone number of person at PO that denied your claim. I’ll call them first chance I get.
Wondercoin
Hello Mitch,
Thanks again, but it won't now be necessary for you to jump-in.
The USPS reversed their decision in denying my 1st Appeal, and is now paying the claim. At least that's some good news; better would be to have found the coin but will take it. However, my USPS advocate is still on top of the search.
I commend the USPS for doing the right thing.
Thanks to all who have been so supportive...
Merry Christmas,
Jim
Great News Jim
You can buy Opus One with the payment!!!
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Great news Jim! They did the right thing.
I am like you though......I would much rather have the coin back.
This has been a very interesting read that’s for sure. Sorry to hear about your lost dime. Getting something back is better than a 100% loss, but ya just can’t get over the loss. Makes you feel empty, even though it’s just a little coin.
Later, Paul.
I really thought that I would revisit the thread and the coin was found and sent to PCGS with the hopes of a PL designation. Even im sad as I understand that even if the claim is paid out it doesnt replace the unique coin.. Im very sorry to hear about the whole ordeal..
My Instagram
I keep hoping for a miracle update....