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What to do ?

bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum

In my coin collecting endeavors I have never begun a PCGS or NGC registry.

Tonght for fun I started a Mexican Cap & Rays basic circulation strike 1823-1897.

However I could easily start the same set across the street.....which I may do.

Question:

Should I start two registry sets at PCGS and NGC?

Or choose one or the other TPG service ?

If so which one?

I own probably 65-70 different dates ( all slabbed split between PCGS and NGC ) and several nice unslabbed early dates as well.

I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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Comments

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Personally, I like PCGS holders, their grading standards, and occasional coinfacts images I don't have to pay for.

    Do you have a preference? I don't think having 2 registries is the way to go.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    Personally, I like PCGS holders, their grading standards, and occasional coinfacts images I don't have to pay for.

    Do you have a preference? I don't think having 2 registries is the way to go.

    Thanks I appreciate your opinion.......may require many crossovers ......if I did that I would do at whatever PCGS believes the coin should be graded.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, the complete set has over 1000 coins so you can go either way :D That said, as I have never crossed between PCGS and NGC I have coins on slabs for both companies so carry registries on both. More than competition, for organisation purposes. I think that crossing is a terrible idea (not trying to start a civil war) from tge financial perspective so I avoid it. If you want one over the other, keep in mind that likely the majority of 8 reales are in NGC plastic. If you go to PCGS it will be a small fortune to cross, assuming they cross. Enjoy the coins... That said, PCGS images when available, can be downloaded for free and usually are very good!

  • jgennjgenn Posts: 744 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you want the challenge then pick the registry that has the best set to compete against and go all in with crossovers. If you want to organize your collection go with the custom set ATS where you can include slabs from both TPGs. I agree with Roman that two competitive registries is not the way to go.

    Amazing 8s * Silver Dollars of '60 * My World Crown Affair
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,244 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I disagree 2 sets are fine , no law says every coin has to be in one set. Don't waste money crossing anything just let the chips fall where they may

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would go for the custom set and not spend extra money on grading fees. When you get to 800 coins, once you know you’re really serious about it, once the set is actually important, then you can consider crossovers and build a virtual monument to your accomplishment.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    I would go for the custom set and not spend extra money on grading fees. When you get to 800 coins, once you know you’re really serious about it, once the set is actually important, then you can consider crossovers and build a virtual monument to your accomplishment.

    When you say the custom set I suppose you mean the set at NGC that has one coin from every mint .

    Let’s say I was serious and did get 800 coins .

    Would you use NGC or PCGS ?

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2019 3:09PM

    @bidask said:

    @MrEureka said:
    I would go for the custom set and not spend extra money on grading fees. When you get to 800 coins, once you know you’re really serious about it, once the set is actually important, then you can consider crossovers and build a virtual monument to your accomplishment.

    When you say the custom set I suppose you mean the set at NGC that has one coin from every mint .

    Let’s say I was serious and did get 800 coins .

    Would you use NGC or PCGS ?

    I’ve never actually looked at the NGC registry. But if you can figure out how to put PCGS and NGC coins into one (presumably non-competitive) registry set, that’s the way to go.

    As for P vs N, it could go either way. Cross that bridge when you get there.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @bidask said:

    @MrEureka said:
    I would go for the custom set and not spend extra money on grading fees. When you get to 800 coins, once you know you’re really serious about it, once the set is actually important, then you can consider crossovers and build a virtual monument to your accomplishment.

    When you say the custom set I suppose you mean the set at NGC that has one coin from every mint .

    Let’s say I was serious and did get 800 coins .

    Would you use NGC or PCGS ?

    I’ve never actually looked at the NGC registry. But if you can figure out how to put PCGS and NGC coins into one (presumably non-competitive) registry set, that’s the way to go.

    As for P vs N, it could go either way. Cross that bridge when you get there.

    Thanks ,,,,,,a non competitive set with both TPG's would be fine with me.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask said:

    @MrEureka said:

    @bidask said:

    @MrEureka said:
    I would go for the custom set and not spend extra money on grading fees. When you get to 800 coins, once you know you’re really serious about it, once the set is actually important, then you can consider crossovers and build a virtual monument to your accomplishment.

    When you say the custom set I suppose you mean the set at NGC that has one coin from every mint .

    Let’s say I was serious and did get 800 coins .

    Would you use NGC or PCGS ?

    I’ve never actually looked at the NGC registry. But if you can figure out how to put PCGS and NGC coins into one (presumably non-competitive) registry set, that’s the way to go.

    As for P vs N, it could go either way. Cross that bridge when you get there.

    Thanks ,,,,,,a non competitive set with both TPG's would be fine with me.

    NGC has that option, as pointed out above by @Jgenn


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those are some great Cap'n'Rays! Nice Guadalupe Y Calvo example and love that 1851 Durango.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019 7:17PM

    Approximately what percentage of the coins in the entire series exists in mint state?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    Approximately what percentage of the coins in the entire series exists in mint state?

    Not sure ............but minuscule compared to Morgan dollars .

    I’m willing to buy less than 65.

    But I want top pops if available.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    Approximately what percentage of the coins in the entire series exists in mint state?

    In general, those minted after the French left can be obtained in the mid 60s. The early issues are difficult in MS (some do not exist). But you see, being over 1000 year-mint-assayer combinations, the least of the problems is getting MS coins, for some issues is just getting the coin...

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just established a Mexico City mint NGC registry.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask Looks like you created 3. Very nice. That set can keep you occupied for life.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I still do not know what to do ....?? I am waiting for a crossover special from pcgs ...it has been awhile since they offered that
    opportunity for world coins.

    I have been buying alot of cap and rays lately both pcgs and ngc.

    Here is the latest listed as rare in Dunigan and Parker.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019 6:36AM

    @Abuelo said:
    @bidask Looks like you created 3. Very nice. That set can keep you occupied for life.

    Thank you @Abuelo for you encouragement. It is alot of fun !

    One day about 10 years from now I plan to fly to China and find a buyer for my entire collection of Cap & Rays. :)

    My sets can be found under 'Collection from the West'.....both pcgs and ngc.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Talk about some serious die polish on the obv. of that 44/35!

  • ncsuwolf74ncsuwolf74 Posts: 116 ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019 5:38PM

    @Bidask, I own cap and rays in both PCGS and NGC but always prefer this series in NGC holders. The two main reasons is 1) I think they are a better investment in an NGC holder because most examples are already in NGC holders. 2) I think they have more expertise in this particular series.

    I've read another post of yours about comparing cap and rays to Morgans and trying to find an MS65 in cap and rays versus Morgans. There just aren't as many of these in existence and many examples may never come up for auction. As the Chinese have entered this market for cap and rays, the price/value has gone up since this use to be their currency. I hope this is a trend to continue, but something you have to be cautious of as the price appreciates while you are still trying to add to your collection.

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."

    Jim Elliot

  • ExbritExbrit Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    I would go for the custom set and not spend extra money on grading fees. When you get to 800 coins, once you know you’re really serious about it, once the set is actually important, then you can consider crossovers and build a virtual monument to your accomplishment.

    Bingo! What he said.

  • StorkStork Posts: 5,206 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ...> @bidask said:

    @MrEureka said:
    I would go for the custom set and not spend extra money on grading fees. When you get to 800 coins, once you know you’re really serious about it, once the set is actually important, then you can consider crossovers and build a virtual monument to your accomplishment.

    When you say the custom set I suppose you mean the set at NGC that has one coin from every mint .

    Let’s say I was serious and did get 800 coins .

    Would you use NGC or PCGS ?

    What to do is a tough question. Especially with the fantastic coins you have!

    If you want to 'compete' you can pick the one that has the toughest competitors. Or, if you really want to be crazy, build a set in both places, then crack and resubmit each coin to the opposite service...no one has to know the coins are no longer in the old slab and each coin can be in both places :wink::smile::smiley: (In case anyone thinks I'm serious, I'm not).

    For me I do like the custom sets ATS (which led my OC traits to building a whole bunch of silliness over there which I'm in the process of dismantling...I added a ton of coins to the coin manager to help track my coins and that led to some truly ridiculous things).

    Other options include a vanity website--I have one that is seriously neglected at the moment. Also, Collective Coin seemed like it might have gotten viable as you can build a category of whatever you want. But now with the sites not requiring photo hosting, and with Stacks buying it, that seems to have languished. For awhile I thought it would be the way to go especially if Stacks really wanted to--they could have made a competitive category or something. But then they'd be competing with something the TPG do and that might not have been a good choice. I haven't added a coin there in ages.

    In any case, ATS you can build a custom set with whatever defined slots you want inside...including PCGS coins. At this point the custom sets are only being accessed via the old Collector's Society portal. The new format hasn't caught up with custom sets. You can log into your regular account and it will let you build a set however you wish to define it. The interface is a bit archaic these days, but eventually it should be upgraded.

    https://coins.collectors-society.com/wcm/CoinCustomSetListing.aspx

    I have a set over there that is my virtual Dansco Japan Type set to use for my coins too nice to crack. I built the album online and delineated the slots as I chose to mirror the physical album. I even found one work around in that I named a few slots as 'want' coins and was able to upload pictures of a couple raw coins. There are plenty of PCGS coins in the set too.

    I really wish PCGS had something similar, they are doing a much better job at attributing Japanese coins recently, including using the JNDA numbers and types. I have crossed several coins to get Albanian coins into my set over there (again, no comparable set here or I would have jumped another way perhaps) but I generally leave the Japanese coins in the PCGS slabs nowadays. If nothing else the Japanese market is loving PCGS more.

    That said, it would take a huge incentive or shift for me to cross the NGC coins to PCGS, though for the reasons above I like PCGS. Who knows. It could happen, but probably not until PCGS starts a custom registry where I could keep a few coins in NGC slabs--my star coins and the PL coins aren't going anywhere. Plus I hate cracking the really old slabs from either company--even though I know the grades might be 'improved', I want to keep that old yellow label or no line fatty! Completely illogical as I claim to be slab agnostic.

    I suppose the real answer is to go back and start fixing up the vanity website to have exactly what I want. But I've been busy. Or, do the same for Collective Coin (but would be at the mercy of Stacks if they ever decided to pull the plug).

  • dizzleccdizzlecc Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭

    It is hard enough to buy really nice Cap and Rays certified much less to try an select just one TPG. Once you get past 200 coins, finding quality mint state graded coins will be a challenge. The series is still relatively young when it comes to be graded. Advice is buy when you see one that fits your collection style and worry about the holder selection later. If you want to have fun, pick one of the smaller mints, and have that mint all in one services

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you all for your suggestions!

    And dizzlecc and ncsuwolf74 if you ever want to part with some of your nicer and scarce 8 reales please give me a holler ! 😊

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • savitalesavitale Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, 1104 coins required to complete the set. Considering the #1 ranked set is only 5.89% complete this sounds like a life-long challenge. Assuming you are now about 12 years old. I'd love to see the digital album when it is completed someday.

    LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I finally decided that since this is basically a hobby for me I took up PCGS offer on their Latin America and Mexico quarterly crossover special that I believe runs through 9/30 and submitted over 100 NGC graded coins at the ANA for crossover .

    I know it will cost me money. It’s ok.
    But it has been a long while since I’ve seen a crossover special with this kind of
    focus.

    So far I have received about 75% agreement from PCGS with some unexpected plus grades .

    https://www.pcgs.com/myaccount/order-details/21668009

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sounds like a neat experiment. You posted a link to your personal order details page - we can't see it. Make sure you share the order because if i go to the shared page for your order 21668009 i can't find it:

    https://pcgs.com/shared-orders/order-details/21668009


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    https://www.pcgs.com/shared-orders/order-details/21668009

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask said:
    https://www.pcgs.com/shared-orders/order-details/21668009

    Is that any better ?

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, and really want to see them!

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can see them.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For some reason, I cannot...

  • ncsuwolf74ncsuwolf74 Posts: 116 ✭✭✭

    Glad to see that 1835 Go crossed for you. I knew it was a solid piece and always enjoyed it. It's probably a well known fact but when you cross these coins from one service to another, the graded population is overstated on the other site. I asked NGC if they contacted PCGS if a coin crosses and they said they do not. That means the population is overstated. (Same as when you crack one open and resubmit it trying to get a higher grade.) This can make you appreciate a little more scarcity/rarity of the coins when they come up for sale or bid.

    I can only see grades so hopeful you'll post the trueviews of these coins when you get them!!

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."

    Jim Elliot

  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Finally. Quite impressive group. Looking forward to see the images. While a different discussion, I hope you return the labels to NGC so they update their census. That helps everyone.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Abuelo said:
    Finally. Quite impressive group. Looking forward to see the images. While a different discussion, I hope you return the labels to NGC so they update their census. That helps everyone.

    Yes, not sure what to do about that. I anticipate getting the NGC flips back along with the PCGS slabs.

    My concern is I have heard stories that NGC sometimes does not correct their pops when this is done.

    I want to send them back to NGC but I will take photos of the flips first....in case they are "missplaced".

    Thoughts ?

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ncsuwolf74 said:
    Glad to see that 1835 Go crossed for you. I knew it was a solid piece and always enjoyed it. It's probably a well known fact but when you cross these coins from one service to another, the graded population is overstated on the other site. I asked NGC if they contacted PCGS if a coin crosses and they said they do not. That means the population is overstated. (Same as when you crack one open and resubmit it trying to get a higher grade.) This can make you appreciate a little more scarcity/rarity of the coins when they come up for sale or bid.

    I can only see grades so hopeful you'll post the trueviews of these coins when you get them!!

    I also had no doubt that 1835 GO would not cross. I will show soe trueviews. Hope you post your PCGS 65 !

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have wasted a bit of money crossing over to PCGS, accepting downgrades, etc. Personally, I wouldn't spend a single cent trying to cross now. If you buy a PCGS coin, put that into the PCGS registry. Ditto the NGC graded coins.

    Or, create your own personal set. I don't think many people will ever even click on your registry page to view the collection. A lot of money and time that few will ever appreciate.

    The Registry sets are great for the TPGs, but the competition they foster (which is mostly in the mind of the collector), affects the collector's pocketbook.

    I was putting together a complete half dollar set on the PCGS registry...then I got woke.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I appreciate your sentiment and it shared by a few others.

    However, I knew I was going to "waste money " going this route to cross.

    Don't know if anyone will click on my registry but I am having fun and think cap & rays 8 reales are more challenging
    ( and varied to collect ) than US half dollars . Just sayin.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • ZoharZohar Posts: 6,647 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We buy the coin first and foremost. Build a custom set with the mix. I know you picked the nicest coins and custom set allows for a mixed presentation between the services.

    Habsburg Talers
    Taler Custom Set
    Ancient Custom Set


  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I never heard anything as such. I have never crossed a coin from NGC to PCGS (or the other way), but I would think it is important to do the best for honest census. Just me. Really want.to see the pics!

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019 1:37PM

    Here are more results from 1/4 my special crossover.

    https://www.pcgs.com/shared-orders/order-details/21669667

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Somehow, I cannot see them...

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Abuelo said:
    Somehow, I cannot see them...

    How about now ?

    https://www.pcgs.com/shared-orders/order-details/21669667

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now it works. Still awaiting for the images on the first installment...

  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Solid grades by the way @bidask !

  • ncsuwolf74ncsuwolf74 Posts: 116 ✭✭✭

    Any upgrades in this batch?

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."

    Jim Elliot

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ncsuwolf74 said:
    Any upgrades in this batch?

    I don’t recall 😊 Will have to check when I get the coins back.

    Also still waiting on trueviiews .

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hoping to get the trueviews soon .

    Another batch crossed but I thought some that did not cross deserved too.

    https://www.pcgs.com/shared-orders/order-details/21668001

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This submission turned out nicely regards crossover .

    Note the non cap & rays coins .

    I think the 1808 Peru 8 reales is a stunner.
    Beautiful surfaces.

    I believe a top pop.

    https://www.pcgs.com/myaccount/order-details/21667994

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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