I look at the holder as a tool,as I have gotten older and somewhat more experienced patience has played a big factor in purchasing slabbed coins for me. Patience in looking at coins and determining if the grade matches the coin.Not just "settling" on the plastic but focusing on the coin.
Obviously learning how to grade coins is a big part of coin collecting,teach yourself and be patient.
I guess I don't understand why something that is essentially great advice rooted in common sense would be so aggravating
it might have something to do with the self-righteous attitude of those that keep harping on it, like they know so much about what is best for everyone else. it's much like all the posting that goes on by the same members about a wide range of topics, they are just so smart and all us other dolts just don't get it.
It bugs me too but only in certain contexts. It's of course sound advice at times but people use it in a dismissive/condescending/unhelpful way and that is definitely annoying. It's also ironic when people are asking legitimate questions about the coin itself and still get hit with the "buy the coin not the holder" reply. - Thanks for the help that's what they're trying to do.
When buying a coin, look beyond the plastic encasement to decide if there is beauty within and an attraction that will bring you years of enlightenment.
Nah, it’s quicker and easier to say buy the coin, not the holder.
@koynekwest said:
But I'll admit-I don't know the difference between an MS68 and an MS69. Or a 66 from a 67 for that matter.
Neither do the grading companies, but it creates a consensus that we all agree to...except those who don't, who crack out, and who get the higher grade, because the grading companies did not have an objective process to begin with.
If the grading companies knew "the difference", there would not be a crack-out game.
@Gazes said:
many collectors are not relastic about their own ability to grade and ability to determine a coin that has been messed with. For those collectors they would be better off buying the holder and not the coin. Let's face it, if most people could grade properly there would not be a need for TPG.
This is NOT really true. The point of TPG's was to facilitate sight-unseen trades. If collectors were better able to grade WITHOUT SEEING the coin, then this statement would be true.
Maybe we need to rework language from our inherently lazy and limited use of english.
Alternatives: "Buy the holder, not the coin". "Buy both the coin and the holder". "Are you 100% certain that you are really and in actuality ascertaining all the merits as well as defects of any given coin?" Have you scoured the surfaces of the coin with your eyeballs to get to the rock bottom real McCoy truth of a coin?
I was at a shop yesterday where someone who had inherited some PCGS certified gold coins was waiting for the offer. One of the workers commanded me to not look at the coins, though I could see that one was a type II G$1 in AU55. The dealer told the seller that he had around $600 of metal and $800 of plastic.
@Gazes said:
many collectors are not relastic about their own ability to grade and ability to determine a coin that has been messed with. For those collectors they would be better off buying the holder and not the coin. Let's face it, if most people could grade properly there would not be a need for TPG.
This is NOT really true. The point of TPG's was to facilitate sight-unseen trades. If collectors were better able to grade WITHOUT SEEING the coin, then this statement would be true.
My last sentence was an overstatement for a few reasons. My main point is that grading is not easy and to be an expert at grading takes thousands of hours. Many collectors overestimated their ability to grade.
This is NOT really true. The point of TPG's was to facilitate sight-unseen trades. If collectors were better able to grade WITHOUT SEEING the coin, then this statement would be true.
My last sentence was an overstatement for a few reasons. My main point is that grading is not easy and to be an expert at grading takes thousands of hours. Many collectors overestimated their ability to grade.
Oh, I definitely agree with that.
Of course, I also don't think it should matter if people treated it as a hobby. If you liked a coin and it's price and would be happy to own it, the technical grade really wouldn't matter. 65/66, AU slider...all the same on the happiness scale.
@MLBdays said:
My problems arise when my opinion differs from the holder and the folks who are responsible for the holder offer no feedback after grading ..... how about a little illumination for the fee we all pay? I don't know ~ a couple of sentences on the pluses and minuses of the specimen involved. I'm not asking for a 10 minute video conference...Do I sound off the freagin' wall?
Silly request for most coins. Only helpful for body bags.
What would you want for an MS65? Justification that it is NOT a 66 or justification for why it isn't just a 64?
Take a 65 Morgan, what would they say that would make you happy:
"While this coin has a few more contact marks than we normally like for a 65, the strength of the strike and overall attractiveness of the coin justify our slipping it into a 65 holder. You're welcome!"
Or
"This coin has very few marks but the one distracting mark on the cheek forces us to keep this in a 65."
Or
"Average strike for the grade. Above average marks. Above average luster."
Implicitly every holder basically says:
"Based on my 20 years experience and thousands of coins seen as well as my understanding of the coin market and standards, this is a 65...based on the 10 seconds I have to look at it."
The problem is the FACT that the grading services cannot cure the underlying issues. Those issues are the science and art behind grading nor will they ever take subjective factors out of rendering an opinion. Then the consumer gets to hold the bag for a coin that graded "whatever assigned" number there is on the holder, but is not once again holding up to "market standards" . It's just another get me off the hook for selling that coin "problem solved." So, this is why you need a really good dealer who knows much more than what "those" coins trade for. If you ask me there are too many "dealers" in a very difficult environment
@keets said: "I guess I don't understand why something that is essentially great advice rooted in common sense would be so aggravating"
Me either.
@keets continued: "It might have something to do with the self-righteous attitude of those that keep harping on it, like they know so much about what is best for everyone else. it's much like all the posting that goes on by the same members about a wide range of topics, they are just so smart and all us other dolts just don't get it. The landscape is littered with them."
This calls to mind that wise men don't need advice and fools don't heed it. Nevertheless, we should be very thankful that folks here share their opinions.
Our world is filled with short snippets of universal truths such as "A stitch in time...." Unfortunately, the" flat earther's" of the past, the "earth-centered universe crowd" and others of their ilk frowned on those imparting new ideas, sage advice, or even the universal truths of their era. Possibly, because it made them feel inferior in some way or it would force a change to the status quo.
We tend to judge the motives and knowledge of others from what we know ourselves. Imagine how stale we would get if we shut out new ideas or forgot to renew time tested truths.
Don't know what's considered new at this. Recieved a coin today, cracked the holder and put it in my album. It was cheaper. I buy coins in holders, I can research the coin and actually blow the picture up to see if it matches what I have. Most of the time it does, but I have found some that don't. If it doesnt match what I'm looking at I don't buy. It goes both ways in my opinion
You are buying a bunch more than just the holder. A PCGS coin with a CAC sticker is an opinion based on more than 100 years of hands on experience, by the best pros in the business. They are guaranteeing, with money, the coin inside that holder. What @keets said above is very true. I also see those who want to sell you junk preaching the same stupid saying that this thread was started about.
You are buying a bunch more than just the holder. A PCGS coin with a CAC sticker is an opinion based on more than 100 years of hands on experience, by the best pros in the business. They are guaranteeing, with money, the coin inside that holder. What @keets said above is very true. I also see those who want to sell you junk preaching the same stupid saying that this thread was started about.
What you say is absolutely true. Nevertheless, "Buy the coin and not the holder" applies. Only an uninformed person would argue that all coins that are graded the same have the same desirability! Why is it necessary to mention CAC in your reply? The same goes for them! Some coins with CAC stickers are better than others.
The truth is, many folks don't need or care about the "grading crutches." All a label does is put a starting price to negotiate from. They don't need the protection that a TPGS opinion provides.
@ARCO said: "Neither do the grading companies, but it creates a consensus that we all agree to...except those who don't, who crack out, and who get the higher grade, because the grading companies did not have an objective process to begin with. If the grading companies knew "the difference", there would not be a crack-out game."
I'll disagree. IMO, the graders know the difference. Unfortunately, there are occasions where things get "fudged."
For example, if a grader misses something. These occasions take the necessary precision out of the grading process.
50 year career professional graders are exempt from my discussion.
LOL. However, my grading opinions are just that - another opinion - period. And... less valuable than the opinions of many others WAY above my pay grade!.
I have been buying the holder not the coin for the history. I’ve been on a tear of buying Mercs in PCGS 2.1 OGH’s lately. 2.1 holders will get their due eventually as time goes on. Until then I will amass a pile of them.
Things I like to do: Collect PL Morgans. That’s is all.
@Gazes said:
many collectors are not relastic about their own ability to grade and ability to determine a coin that has been messed with. For those collectors they would be better off buying the holder and not the coin. Let's face it, if most people could grade properly there would not be a need for TPG.
Let's face it - if most dealers knew how to grade, there would be no need for TPGs to keep them honest.
@hutze1nm said:
I have been buying the holder not the coin for the history. I’ve been on a tear of buying Mercs in PCGS 2.1 OGH’s lately. 2.1 holders will get their due eventually as time goes on. Until then I will amass a pile of them.
Those are my favorite PCGS holders. I have three of them and would like to add more.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
@Gazes said:
many collectors are not relastic about their own ability to grade and ability to determine a coin that has been messed with. For those collectors they would be better off buying the holder and not the coin. Let's face it, if most people could grade properly there would not be a need for TPG.
Let's face it - if most dealers knew how to grade, there would be no need for TPGs to keep them honest.
Most dealers do know how to grade coins. TPGs became necessary because too many dealers would undergrade when buying raw coins and overgrade when selling raw coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Gazes said:
many collectors are not relastic about their own ability to grade and ability to determine a coin that has been messed with. For those collectors they would be better off buying the holder and not the coin. Let's face it, if most people could grade properly there would not be a need for TPG.
Let's face it - if most dealers knew how to grade, there would be no need for TPGs to keep them honest.
Most dealers do know how to grade coins. TPGs became necessary because too many dealers would undergrade when buying raw coins and overgrade when selling raw coins.
Then I guess it is more correct to say that most dealers are not honest in their grading of coins.
You are buying a bunch more than just the holder. A PCGS coin with a CAC sticker is an opinion based on more than 100 years of hands on experience, by the best pros in the business. They are guaranteeing, with money, the coin inside that holder. What @keets said above is very true. I also see those who want to sell you junk preaching the same stupid saying that this thread was started about.
Oh really?? And this remark is coming from the same individual who said in another thread that if you crack a coin and resubmit it now, you basically have to expect it to get downgraded 2 points......or something very near that?
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
You are buying a bunch more than just the holder. A PCGS coin with a CAC sticker is an opinion based on more than 100 years of hands on experience, by the best pros in the business. They are guaranteeing, with money, the coin inside that holder. What @keets said above is very true. I also see those who want to sell you junk preaching the same stupid saying that this thread was started about.
Oh really?? And this remark is coming from the same individual who said in another thread that if you crack a coin and resubmit it now, you basically have to expect it to get downgraded 2 points......or something very near that?
Or something very near that? Note to self, ignore Luxor.
You are buying a bunch more than just the holder. A PCGS coin with a CAC sticker is an opinion based on more than 100 years of hands on experience, by the best pros in the business. They are guaranteeing, with money, the coin inside that holder. What @keets said above is very true. ** I also see those who want to sell you junk preaching the same stupid saying that this thread was started about.**
The statement "buy the coin and not the holder" seems innocuous to me, and I don't understand your disdain of the phrase. You have commented in recent months about perceived harsh grading and downgraded/CAC rattlers in current plastic. If a person only pays attention to the label and not the quality of the coin in it, what do you think is going to happen to your now (presumably) under graded coins when you go to sell? People are going to offer generic money based on the label/holder. Plastic can have negative value. That is true for coins in PCGS plastic and even those with a CAC green sticker. A truly super high end or even under graded coin with a green sticker is going to be treated as only solid or high end for the grade when the reality is that it may upgrade and still green bean at the higher grade. The old adage about buying the coin and not the holder is still relevant.
Not sure if you all are sniffing glue? If you crack a coin out, all bets are off. That does not make the PCGS coin with CAC any less valuable. In fact, the pop went down and makes them more valuable.
I am not getting into this Devils advocate nonsense here, and Cameonut2011 is now on the Luxor list.
@Wabbit2313 said:
If you crack a coin out, all bets are off. That does not make the PCGS coin with CAC any less valuable. In fact, the pop went down and makes them more valuable.
An issue is that many times the pop doesn’t go down
@Wabbit2313 said:
If you crack a coin out, all bets are off. That does not make the PCGS coin with CAC any less valuable. In fact, the pop went down and makes them more valuable.
An issue is that many times the pop doesn’t go down
The real pop report is being shown in recent auctions on rare coins. I call it the street pop report, and the street pops are very low right now!
@Wabbit2313 said:
Not sure if you all are sniffing glue? If you crack a coin out, all bets are off. That does not make the PCGS coin with CAC any less valuable. In fact, the pop went down and makes them more valuable.
I am not getting into this Devils advocate nonsense here, and Cameonut2011 is now on the Luxor list.
You should be on your own list when it comes to talking out both sides of your mouth. :-)
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
<<< Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ December 8, 2017 9:34PM
Seems about right. Coins getting 1-2 grades under these days. This is why I laugh when I keep hearing gradeflation. Crack about any coin from the old holders right now and it WILL go down. >>>
Flag Quote · 1Agree Like LOL
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Buy the coin not the holder is the rule that I try to follow but it is a bit annoying when I see colonial coins that were graded Fine, VF, or XF from auction sales from the 80’s to 00’s being put in holders one to two grades higher.
Just read this thread. I'm shocked. I guess I didn't understand until now. I've been buying the holders and not the coins. I completely forgot about the coins. I just checked, sure enough, all my slabs are empty.
Comments
I look at the holder as a tool,as I have gotten older and somewhat more experienced patience has played a big factor in purchasing slabbed coins for me. Patience in looking at coins and determining if the grade matches the coin.Not just "settling" on the plastic but focusing on the coin.
Obviously learning how to grade coins is a big part of coin collecting,teach yourself and be patient.
Close but WITH cigar is what he said along with 'I did not risk violating your no smoking policy in the White House by lighting it, Hill.
Here's one you can do that with.
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN, MWallace, ms71, lordmarcovan
I guess I don't understand why something that is essentially great advice rooted in common sense would be so aggravating
it might have something to do with the self-righteous attitude of those that keep harping on it, like they know so much about what is best for everyone else. it's much like all the posting that goes on by the same members about a wide range of topics, they are just so smart and all us other dolts just don't get it.
the landscape is littered with them.
You know there is medication for this?
I like buy the book before the coin. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
Do I sound off the freagin' wall?
to me, yes.
It bugs me too but only in certain contexts. It's of course sound advice at times but people use it in a dismissive/condescending/unhelpful way and that is definitely annoying. It's also ironic when people are asking legitimate questions about the coin itself and still get hit with the "buy the coin not the holder" reply. - Thanks for the help that's what they're trying to do.
When buying a coin, look beyond the plastic encasement to decide if there is beauty within and an attraction that will bring you years of enlightenment.
Nah, it’s quicker and easier to say buy the coin, not the holder.
Cheers
Bob
Neither do the grading companies, but it creates a consensus that we all agree to...except those who don't, who crack out, and who get the higher grade, because the grading companies did not have an objective process to begin with.
If the grading companies knew "the difference", there would not be a crack-out game.
This is NOT really true. The point of TPG's was to facilitate sight-unseen trades. If collectors were better able to grade WITHOUT SEEING the coin, then this statement would be true.
Maybe we need to rework language from our inherently lazy and limited use of english.
Alternatives: "Buy the holder, not the coin". "Buy both the coin and the holder". "Are you 100% certain that you are really and in actuality ascertaining all the merits as well as defects of any given coin?" Have you scoured the surfaces of the coin with your eyeballs to get to the rock bottom real McCoy truth of a coin?
I was at a shop yesterday where someone who had inherited some PCGS certified gold coins was waiting for the offer. One of the workers commanded me to not look at the coins, though I could see that one was a type II G$1 in AU55. The dealer told the seller that he had around $600 of metal and $800 of plastic.
My last sentence was an overstatement for a few reasons. My main point is that grading is not easy and to be an expert at grading takes thousands of hours. Many collectors overestimated their ability to grade.
Oh, I definitely agree with that.
Of course, I also don't think it should matter if people treated it as a hobby. If you liked a coin and it's price and would be happy to own it, the technical grade really wouldn't matter. 65/66, AU slider...all the same on the happiness scale.
Silly request for most coins. Only helpful for body bags.
What would you want for an MS65? Justification that it is NOT a 66 or justification for why it isn't just a 64?
Take a 65 Morgan, what would they say that would make you happy:
"While this coin has a few more contact marks than we normally like for a 65, the strength of the strike and overall attractiveness of the coin justify our slipping it into a 65 holder. You're welcome!"
Or
"This coin has very few marks but the one distracting mark on the cheek forces us to keep this in a 65."
Or
"Average strike for the grade. Above average marks. Above average luster."
Implicitly every holder basically says:
"Based on my 20 years experience and thousands of coins seen as well as my understanding of the coin market and standards, this is a 65...based on the 10 seconds I have to look at it."
The problem is the FACT that the grading services cannot cure the underlying issues. Those issues are the science and art behind grading nor will they ever take subjective factors out of rendering an opinion. Then the consumer gets to hold the bag for a coin that graded "whatever assigned" number there is on the holder, but is not once again holding up to "market standards" . It's just another get me off the hook for selling that coin "problem solved." So, this is why you need a really good dealer who knows much more than what "those" coins trade for. If you ask me there are too many "dealers" in a very difficult environment
Go baby Go............ was not directing departure.> @Paradisefound said:
@keets said: "I guess I don't understand why something that is essentially great advice rooted in common sense would be so aggravating"
Me either.
@keets continued: "It might have something to do with the self-righteous attitude of those that keep harping on it, like they know so much about what is best for everyone else. it's much like all the posting that goes on by the same members about a wide range of topics, they are just so smart and all us other dolts just don't get it. The landscape is littered with them."
This calls to mind that wise men don't need advice and fools don't heed it. Nevertheless, we should be very thankful that folks here share their opinions.
Our world is filled with short snippets of universal truths such as "A stitch in time...." Unfortunately, the" flat earther's" of the past, the "earth-centered universe crowd" and others of their ilk frowned on those imparting new ideas, sage advice, or even the universal truths of their era. Possibly, because it made them feel inferior in some way or it would force a change to the status quo.
We tend to judge the motives and knowledge of others from what we know ourselves. Imagine how stale we would get if we shut out new ideas or forgot to renew time tested truths.
Don't know what's considered new at this. Recieved a coin today, cracked the holder and put it in my album. It was cheaper. I buy coins in holders, I can research the coin and actually blow the picture up to see if it matches what I have. Most of the time it does, but I have found some that don't. If it doesnt match what I'm looking at I don't buy. It goes both ways in my opinion
Old thread I see.
You are buying a bunch more than just the holder. A PCGS coin with a CAC sticker is an opinion based on more than 100 years of hands on experience, by the best pros in the business. They are guaranteeing, with money, the coin inside that holder. What @keets said above is very true. I also see those who want to sell you junk preaching the same stupid saying that this thread was started about.
What you say is absolutely true. Nevertheless, "Buy the coin and not the holder" applies. Only an uninformed person would argue that all coins that are graded the same have the same desirability! Why is it necessary to mention CAC in your reply? The same goes for them! Some coins with CAC stickers are better than others.
The truth is, many folks don't need or care about the "grading crutches." All a label does is put a starting price to negotiate from. They don't need the protection that a TPGS opinion provides.
@ARCO said: "Neither do the grading companies, but it creates a consensus that we all agree to...except those who don't, who crack out, and who get the higher grade, because the grading companies did not have an objective process to begin with. If the grading companies knew "the difference", there would not be a crack-out game."
I'll disagree. IMO, the graders know the difference. Unfortunately, there are occasions where things get "fudged."
For example, if a grader misses something. These occasions take the necessary precision out of the grading process.
@Insider2
50 year career professional graders are exempt from my discussion.
LOL. However, my grading opinions are just that - another opinion - period. And... less valuable than the opinions of many others WAY above my pay grade!.
I have been buying the holder not the coin for the history. I’ve been on a tear of buying Mercs in PCGS 2.1 OGH’s lately. 2.1 holders will get their due eventually as time goes on. Until then I will amass a pile of them.
Why would you buy a doily holder that had the coin cracked out?
Let's face it - if most dealers knew how to grade, there would be no need for TPGs to keep them honest.
Those are my favorite PCGS holders. I have three of them and would like to add more.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Most dealers do know how to grade coins. TPGs became necessary because too many dealers would undergrade when buying raw coins and overgrade when selling raw coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Then I guess it is more correct to say that most dealers are not honest in their grading of coins.
Oh really?? And this remark is coming from the same individual who said in another thread that if you crack a coin and resubmit it now, you basically have to expect it to get downgraded 2 points......or something very near that?
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Or something very near that? Note to self, ignore Luxor.
To me, “buy the coin, not the holder” is like saying make sure the coin is solid for the grade.
The statement "buy the coin and not the holder" seems innocuous to me, and I don't understand your disdain of the phrase. You have commented in recent months about perceived harsh grading and downgraded/CAC rattlers in current plastic. If a person only pays attention to the label and not the quality of the coin in it, what do you think is going to happen to your now (presumably) under graded coins when you go to sell? People are going to offer generic money based on the label/holder. Plastic can have negative value. That is true for coins in PCGS plastic and even those with a CAC green sticker. A truly super high end or even under graded coin with a green sticker is going to be treated as only solid or high end for the grade when the reality is that it may upgrade and still green bean at the higher grade. The old adage about buying the coin and not the holder is still relevant.
I buy coins, I buy holders, I put raw coins in holders.
How about: "Buy the coin and not the holder that you like!"
What about "buy the coin and the holder"
Not sure if you all are sniffing glue? If you crack a coin out, all bets are off. That does not make the PCGS coin with CAC any less valuable. In fact, the pop went down and makes them more valuable.
I am not getting into this Devils advocate nonsense here, and Cameonut2011 is now on the Luxor list.
I just now bought the coin in the holder for over 900 bucks .....
An issue is that many times the pop doesn’t go down
The real pop report is being shown in recent auctions on rare coins. I call it the street pop report, and the street pops are very low right now!
No one implied that it did.
Of course, after I image it tho
It is super nice with amazing eye appeal. I have never owned one before.
You should be on your own list when it comes to talking out both sides of your mouth. :-)
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
<<< Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ December 8, 2017 9:34PM
Seems about right. Coins getting 1-2 grades under these days. This is why I laugh when I keep hearing gradeflation. Crack about any coin from the old holders right now and it WILL go down. >>>
Flag Quote · 1Agree Like LOL
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Buy the coin not the holder is the rule that I try to follow but it is a bit annoying when I see colonial coins that were graded Fine, VF, or XF from auction sales from the 80’s to 00’s being put in holders one to two grades higher.
"She has a good personality"
>
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN, MWallace, ms71, lordmarcovan
Just read this thread. I'm shocked. I guess I didn't understand until now. I've been buying the holders and not the coins. I completely forgot about the coins. I just checked, sure enough, all my slabs are empty.