Change to the top 4 TPG's, IMO

ErrorsOnCoinsErrorsOnCoins Posts: 9,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 13, 2019 11:56AM in U.S. Coin Forum

IMO, The top tier TPS were as follows ...

1) PCGS
2) NGC
3) ANACS (white, blue, yellow)
4) ICG

IMO, from recent personal experience, and all of the educational information Insider2 provides ...

I now rank the top 4 TPS the following ......

1) PCGS
2) NGC
x) ANACS (white) no longer availble new
3) IGC
4) ANACS (blue, yellow)

Making ICG Number 3 at the present time, IMO.

Thank you ICG for the great work you are doing and moving up in my book and helping to add competition to the industry making all companies better :)

Comments

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Might want to check the rules again....I’m not sure how this thread will be viewed by management....

  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2019 11:56AM

    deleted

    I kind of think @U1chicago is probably correct. The thread could easily go off track in a hurry.... :blush:

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • ErrorsOnCoinsErrorsOnCoins Posts: 9,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @U1chicago said:
    Might want to check the rules again....I’m not sure how this thread will be viewed by management....

    Yes, I did think about that. I am not bad mouthing any companies, I am saying my opinion of one company has changed for the good.

    Competition is good it raises the bar.

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @U1chicago said:
    Might want to check the rules again....I’m not sure how this thread will be viewed by management....

    Yes, I did think about that. I am not bad mouthing any companies, I am saying my opinion of one company has changed for the good.

    Competition is good it raises the bar.

    You, I, and some others might see it that way, but that doesn’t mean management agrees. :)

  • ErrorsOnCoinsErrorsOnCoins Posts: 9,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2019 12:00PM

    @U1chicago said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @U1chicago said:
    Might want to check the rules again....I’m not sure how this thread will be viewed by management....

    Yes, I did think about that. I am not bad mouthing any companies, I am saying my opinion of one company has changed for the good.

    Competition is good it raises the bar.

    You, I, and some others might see it that way, but that doesn’t mean management agrees. :)

    I did put PCGS at the top of both lists as IMO they are Number ONE :) <3 o:)

  • StrikeOutXXXStrikeOutXXX Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭✭

    I've never considered ICG to be less than honorable, ie in the tier of self-slabbers, and always considered them a legit company over the years, with their coins certainly worthy of inspecting.

    Flip-flopping with ANACS over the years for #3, especially back during the big "Swap" so to speak is certainly a legit observation.

    I think eBay recognizes ICG as one of the authorized TPG next to PCGS, NGC, and ANACS which is good. Now if I were in any sort of upper level position at ICG, I'd be trying to work with Great Collections to get recognized there as a working partner as well.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    "You Suck Award" - February, 2015

    Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm biased. IMO, all the services have excellent professional graders who are backed up by great companies with long track records. The rest is subjective. There are several things that go into ranking a TPGS.

    customer service
    cost
    turnaround time
    authentication accuracy
    grading accuracy
    perceived value of their product on the market

    While I MAY disagree with the OP's ranking, IMO, ICG has always been #3. As for the rankings, like it or not, in most cases PCGS will be ranked as #1 overall due to the value of their product in the market. Now if the new folks at PCGS continue to "fix" the things we sometimes hear about... :)

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @StrikeOutXXX said:
    I've never considered ICG to be less than honorable, ie in the tier of self-slabbers, and always considered them a legit company over the years, with their coins certainly worthy of inspecting.

    Flip-flopping with ANACS over the years for #3, especially back during the big "Swap" so to speak is certainly a legit observation.

    I think eBay recognizes ICG as one of the authorized TPG next to PCGS, NGC, and ANACS which is good. Now if I were in any sort of upper level position at ICG, I'd be trying to work with Great Collections to get recognized there as a working partner as well.

    I Like both GC and CAC and know their owners. I think Ian was once one of my students. IMO, the more coins CAC and GC consider/accept, the more money for them.

    I've been told in confidence (not by Ian or JA) there are particular reasons why ICG is not accepted by GC or CAC. IMO, it is their loss but each company is so big and well established that a little extra revenue does not matter to them.

  • ErrorsOnCoinsErrorsOnCoins Posts: 9,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2019 12:53PM

    Insider2, I meant no offense in my ranking, I guess that is just how I perceived things in the past. You personally helped in changing my perception of reality :)

    These are my observation and buys ........

    I have recently increased my buying of ICG coins by 400%.

    I am extremely happy with those coins.

    I really enjoy Insider2's informative posts which reflects on the quality staff they hire :)

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2019 1:01PM

    I took no offense. My boss is happy ranked either #3 or #4. It pays the air conditioning bill.

    PS We seldom receive the "monster" errors you find. :( More importantly, Fred at PCGS is "the Man."

  • ErrorsOnCoinsErrorsOnCoins Posts: 9,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have always liked this very cool coin .....

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 7,431 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can only count on a decent resale with PCGS graded coins and in the higher grades the dreaded sticker is almost a necessity. NGC in less than top population grades, but that gets dicey. Anacs and ICG coins typically sell for a grade lower than the number on the holder.

    Insider is a great contributor so i'll take a closer look at the coins in his slabs.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2019 2:27PM

    A good contributor is not the same as a good grader. I'm too tough for the big show. :wink:

  • rickoricko Posts: 65,101 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those rankings fit with my observations... I have long ranked ICG number three....Cheers, RickO

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The current Yellow ANACS holders are more strictly graded than the small white ANACS holders, in my opinion.

  • djmdjm Posts: 870 ✭✭✭

    I have always ranked ICG as #3.
    As far as customer service goes I rank them #1.

  • fcfc Posts: 12,704 ✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:
    The current Yellow ANACS holders are more strictly graded than the small white ANACS holders, in my opinion.

    What is left in the small white slabs are the leftovers from many many crack outs. I imagine if you see a fresh batch of small white slabs before they get picked over your opinion may change. Heritage archives show many nice properly graded coins in those white slabs if you go back in time far enough.

  • MoldnutMoldnut Posts: 2,995 ✭✭✭✭

    My sample size wasn’t all that large, but my luck with crossovers with early quick release blue ANACS holders was quite impressive.
    I guess I could have been lucky in the matter though. B)

    Derek

    EAC 6024
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 7,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FadeToBlack said:
    I'd agree that, at this point, IGC and ANACS have switched places, but they're still ankle and ankle.

  • Anacs = ICG
    PCGS number 1
    NGC fairly distant second.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 15,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:
    The current Yellow ANACS holders are more strictly graded than the small white ANACS holders, in my opinion.

    ... than the surviving small white ANACS holders, ...

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 18,084 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2019 10:47PM

    I'm a fan of photos so the ranking looks like the following:

    1. PCGS - TrueView in Cert Verification
    2. NGC - slab photos in Cert Verification, PhotoVision not in Cert Verification
    3. ANACS - slab photos in Cert Verification
    4. ICG - no photos
  • keetskeets Posts: 20,616 ✭✭✭✭✭

    to me, ICG is pretty much irrelevant and I view coins in an ICG holder as raw.


  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said: "to me, ICG is pretty much irrelevant and I view coins in an ICG holder as raw."

    This is an EXCELLENT POST as far as it goes. Unfortunately, due to the omissions I cannot recommend it as a best answer. :(

    As any truly knowledgeable numismatist should know and advise... It is best to view coins in any TPGS slab as raw. I view all TPGS slabs as a professional opinion backed up by years of experience plus a guarantee (for most) that adds an additional protection for your purchase. Unfortunately, based on what I see B) , a very large majority of collectors and dealers are not qualified to buy raw coins!

  • ErrorsOnCoinsErrorsOnCoins Posts: 9,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    to me, ICG is pretty much irrelevant and I view coins in an ICG holder as raw.

    I use to think that but from experience, I have changed my mind, thus the post.

    I would much rather have a coin graded by ICG than any raw coin.

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 4,538 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    If I like the coin and it's properly graded and priced fairly, I'll buy it no matter which of those four slabs it's in.

    @PerryHall said:
    If I like the coin and it's properly graded and priced fairly, I'll buy it no matter which of those four slabs it's in.

    I agree but will add that as long as it is priced with some room for me I don't care if it is properly graded or not.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 12,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And I highly respect Skip's opinion and love the educational threads!

  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 6,518 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This topic should be move to the OFR where everyone can give their opinion without breaking the rules here.

    GrandAm :)
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @asheland said:
    And I highly respect Skip's opinion and love the educational threads!

    LOL, <3 Please leave me out of this. I had more fun arguing with the uninformed (self edit) when My ID was anonymous. B)

    @GRANDAM We are discussing the personal opinions members have about the major TPGS's. IMO, no one has posted anything other than an opinion. In fact, we have confirmed that our host is believed to be number

    1

    by most posters.

    What's the OFR. I think I should like to post somewhere that is not censored.

  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 6,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019 1:44PM

    Open Forum Refuge,

    An outlaw site where anything goes that was developed shortly after PCGS closed their Open Forum.

    So, would anyone object if I copied and pasted this thread and moved it to the OFR before it goes POOF?

    GrandAm :)
  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ah the OFR, where people can post the word "fuddernutter" to blow off steam.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019 1:14PM

    Has any hobby organization performed an objective test - even for one coin type - of TPG results? The last one I recall was by Coin World 20 years ago....(?)

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    YIKES! A little birdie tweeted...

    Here is** PCGS Posting Rule #4** - Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.

    PCGS Mods, Please forgive all of us. Mum is the word.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Has any hobby organization performed an objective test - even for one coin type - of TPG results? The last one I recall was by Coin World 20 years ago....(?)

    Some kid came to our table at the FUN show with a group of coins for our opinion. When we were done HE CLAIMED they had been sent and graded by the other 3 major services. He told us their grades and said he was going to publish the results. So far nothing.

    If the other services got to grade the coins "in house" it is not a good test. Anyway, I was satisfied with the results EXCEPT for a weakly struck "S" mint Buffalo that I was too tight on. If I remember, he said the consensus was XF+ and I graded it VF-35 - something that would never happen in the office.

  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 276 ✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2019 5:54AM

    I have crossed a couple ANACS coins to PCGS minus one grade.

    Those old white ANACS and NGC holders are neat in their own respect.

    Why not take advantage of the fact they give you a free professional opinion, at a typically discounted price, before sending into PCGS?

    Worst case you crack it into an album or send it back into the wild.

  • astroratastrorat Posts: 8,057 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Has any hobby organization performed an objective test - even for one coin type - of TPG results? The last one I recall was by Coin World 20 years ago....(?)

    Being an academic, I advocated for the ANA to follow up on the Coin World 'test' with a broader and deeper 'test' and publish the results. I was quickly shut down. The organization was too scared about upsetting its endorsees and 'big dealer' members and resulting lost revenue. That was more important than providing unbiased and timely data to its members and the hobby. So much for be an educational organization.

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭✭✭

    astrorat - Ah, so that might also explain ANA's groundhoging on counterfeits, too...?

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