1964 SMS Coins

Are the 1964 SMS dimes, nickels and quarters rare as well? I only hear people talking about pennies. But then again, I am new to this, so there's that.

Comments

  • segojasegoja Posts: 5,872 ✭✭✭

    they all have the same mintage even though no real records were kept. They all were in sets cent thru half

    They are not found in rolls and loose change

    JMSCoins Website Link


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  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 449 ✭✭✭

    Check out EBay for 1964 SMS to get a v isual on them and an idea what you're getting. :)

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 91 ✭✭✭

    @segoja said:
    they all have the same mintage even though no real records were kept. They all were in sets cent thru half

    They are not found in rolls and loose change

    James, how do you know they have the same mintage, or what the mintage is?

    Mark Feld of Heritage Auctions

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 2,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    -In before RogerB says 1964 SMS coins are fantasies

    Collector, occasional seller

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 16,757 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't get caught up in the search for 1964 SMS coins. You will just be wasting your time and eyesight.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • segojasegoja Posts: 5,872 ✭✭✭

    Mark - we do not know the mintages (as I stated no records), but we do know they were all in sets that were marketed, so I'm taking a small leap of faith that the mintages are the same, whatever they might be

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

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  • PhillyJoePhillyJoe Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭

    Here is a nice write up about the coins from 2016.

    https://coinweek.com/prices/rare-1964-sms-kennedy-half-dollar-sells-47k/

    If you check Heritage's sales archives, you will find sales for all the denominations. You just need to register to view the prices.

    The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition. image
  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 2,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cnncoins can you tell us what is fundamentally different about these coins vs circulation strikes? Only so much can be gathered from an image. If one of these were to be cracked out and sent to PCGS by itself with no documentation, would it receive the SMS designation?

    Collector, occasional seller

  • cnncoinscnncoins Posts: 252 ✭✭✭

    There are some diagnistics that HA refers to in their auction description, especially with the Kennedy Half. I was at the Stack's Sales in the early 1990's when these coins came to auction. These coins were clearly different from both known Proofs and Business strikes...the best way to describe them is the surfaces have a satiny texture with an incredible strike.

    I'm not sure what PCGS would do if these were sent in raw, but my opinion is they would grade them SMS. They would absolutely see that these are completely "different'.

    There are 8-12 sets known (best guess) with the current information available.

  • cnncoinscnncoins Posts: 252 ✭✭✭

    Wondercoin may also have additional information on these.

  • PhillyJoePhillyJoe Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭

    An interesting item in the Coinweek article is that these first appeared a year or two after Eva Adams' death in 1991 and may have been sold by her estate. Her papers from her time as Director of the Mint were given to the University of Nevada. I believe RogerB has gone through those archives.

    The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition. image
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cnncoins ...those are Badass, thanks for sharing them!

    Erik
  • rickoricko Posts: 63,607 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting... nice set @cnncoins .... Too bad the Kennedy was not an AH... :o Cheers, RickO

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No such critters. Simply coins off new dies. Compare with items in Smithsonian NNC that were taken from new dies.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 15,419 ✭✭✭✭

    I do not believe all of the different denominations of 1964 SMS coins have the same Mintages. The Kennedy is the best coin with the lowest mintage in the set.

    Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • segojasegoja Posts: 5,872 ✭✭✭

    All of the 64 SMS coins I've had in hand have a distinct and unique look. They look a little like matte proofs but are heavily die polished. They are unlike any other finish on any coin in the 60's. They do not at all look like proofs, just that they are well struck and off of heavily polished dies.

    Take some of the Heritage images and coin facts images and blow them up. You'll see it very clearly.

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 91 ✭✭✭

    @segoja said:
    All of the 64 SMS coins I've had in hand have a distinct and unique look. They look a little like matte proofs but are heavily die polished. They are unlike any other finish on any coin in the 60's. They do not at all look like proofs, just that they are well struck and off of heavily polished dies.

    Take some of the Heritage images and coin facts images and blow them up. You'll see it very clearly.

    I think they more closely resemble satin proofs than matte proofs. What say you, James?

    Mark Feld of Heritage Auctions

  • AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭✭

    Umm -- pardon my ignorance, but I thought the SMS sets were only for '65 - 67. Are you referring to the 64 regular (unc) mint sets?

    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 91 ✭✭✭

    @Akbeez said:
    Umm -- pardon my ignorance, but I thought the SMS sets were only for '65 - 67. Are you referring to the 64 regular (unc) mint sets?

    The 1964 SMS coins being discussed are neither the 1965-1967 type nor the regular 1964 coins. Here is a link to one article about them : https://www.pcgs.com/news/1964-Special-Mint-Set-Coins

    Mark Feld of Heritage Auctions

  • keetskeets Posts: 20,201 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1). although they may/may not have been struck in equal numbers it seems that today equal numbers of each denomination don't exist.
    2). the coins do seem to have some sort of unusual surface texture.
    3). since the intent from 1965-1967 was to confuse the collecting community and eliminate Proof coins with a different class of issue, it's logical that the Mint would have developed a "process" to do that.
    4). since the Provenance starts with the Director of the Mint during the time in question, it makes sense that the process was developed, some trial strikes made and kept.
    5). I would be interested in seeing what is in the "papers" from the Director of the Mint that relates to these coins.
    6). I think it would be foolish to crack these out and submit them raw.

    image
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭✭

    I can only speak to the cent, which has very distinct diagnostics. It is pretty obvious in hand by the look and then under a glass for sure.

    Doug
    The Ultimate Flying Eagles
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/3203
  • @291fifth said:
    Don't get caught up in the search for 1964 SMS coins. You will just be wasting your time and eyesight.

    @AlexinPA said:
    Check out EBay for 1964 SMS to get a v isual on them and an idea what you're getting. :)

    Thanks!

  • @PhillyJoe said:
    An interesting item in the Coinweek article is that these first appeared a year or two after Eva Adams' death in 1991 and may have been sold by her estate. Her papers from her time as Director of the Mint were given to the University of Nevada. I believe RogerB has gone through those archives.

    Are they publically available? Not that I think it will shed any light on the creation of these coins, but research is another hobby of mine. Currently working my way through King George III's papers, released in 2017.

  • @291fifth said:
    Don't get caught up in the search for 1964 SMS coins. You will just be wasting your time and eyesight.

    It's fun. I know I don't have a 1964 SMS penny, or any other coin of any real value. That, however, does not stop me from having fun. :)

  • @segoja said:
    All of the 64 SMS coins I've had in hand have a distinct and unique look. They look a little like matte proofs but are heavily die polished. They are unlike any other finish on any coin in the 60's. They do not at all look like proofs, just that they are well struck and off of heavily polished dies.

    Take some of the Heritage images and coin facts images and blow them up. You'll see it very clearly.

    I am still working on recognizing proofs! You are many steps ahead of me. I will get there. One day...

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2019 8:06PM

    They look exactly like what they are and as they should --- early strikes off new dies. Nothing more. Attractive and highly detailed compared to coins from the same dies made after a few hundred strikes. The same applies to other coins from other designs and other eras - Morgan dollars, SL quarters, Peace dollars, etc., etc.

  • AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Akbeez said:
    Umm -- pardon my ignorance, but I thought the SMS sets were only for '65 - 67. Are you referring to the 64 regular (unc) mint sets?

    The 1964 SMS coins being discussed are neither the 1965-1967 type nor the regular 1964 coins. Here is a link to one article about them : https://www.pcgs.com/news/1964-Special-Mint-Set-Coins

    Thank you -- I had no idea such a thing existed. I stand enlightened!! :)

    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
  • @segoja said:
    they all have the same mintage even though no real records were kept. They all were in sets cent thru half

    They are not found in rolls and loose change

    You might be surprised at what is sometimes found in rolls or loose change. People sometimes spend things without understanding what they are spending, especially young people after older people pass on and they start going through their possessions.

    I routinely ask bank tellers and customer service clerks at grocery stores if they have any half dollars or whole "silver" dollars. Occasionally, I will get one pre-64, but most often not. But one day, I asked at a grocery store, and the young man behind the counter said, " You're in luck. Another customer just changed some for bills."

    Imagine my surprise when he handed me 8 1922 Silver dollars. They were in excellent condition! They were beautiful and looked like they had been carefully preserved. Clearly, whoever traded them in for dollar bills for, of all things, the lottery ticket machine for goodness sakes, didn't know they were worth more than face value. The clerk was very young and probably didn't know that they were worth more than face value either. So it was that for $8.00, I walked away with what turned out to be 8 uncirculated 1922 Peace Silver Dollars. I gave them to my father, who was thrilled. I now wish I hadn't, because after he passed, my greedy, acquisitive stepmother kept them, along with anything and everything else of any real value. Her own kids or grandkids have likely sold them, or heaven forbid, spent them.

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