Toning Causes a 2000% or 20x increase in value in a common date modern Lincoln
WingedLiberty1957
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I am making no judgement on the wisdom of this, simply observing marketplace reality.
Take two common date 1979-D Lincoln Cents ... both slabbed NGC ... both in MS66 condition ...
The untoned RD ones are going begging at $24 each (few want them -- over 10 are still for sale with few takers). Maybe if the price dropped to $20, it might sell a bit better? Maybe. Lets assume the "market value of an NGC MS66RD 1979-D Lincoln Cent is around $20.
Take the same date (1979-D) and condition (MS66) Lincoln , but this time it's colorfully toned, graded NGC MS66BN. In this case there is a mad scramble --- there are 30 bids in 1 week, and it hammers for $406.00
That's a 20x increase in market value!
I know that PCGS is very locked into the paradigm that RD > RB > BN in the price guide. But in many cases, the reality of the marketplace tells a different story entirely.
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What happened to the term "Altered Color?"
I guess if they like it and they don't know differently, let them pay what it takes to make them happy.
I guess if it makes you rich and you can sleep at night, do what you can within the "rules."
I guess you can put lipstick on a pig if the farmer is busy milking the cow.
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People will pay for what they perceive as value....In today's market, the perception is that colorful coins are of value....I have watched this phenomena grow over the years.... and such a situation as described by the OP does not surprise me. It does make me question the wisdom of such a purchase. I do not question those who make these coins... I already know the motive... profit...easy and considerable. So I shall continue to watch the tarnish madness, while not partaking....Cheers, RickO
I have to wonder if that result is repeatable or was this just a bidding frenzy between two bidders, with one satisfied would another go much cheaper. In any event like Ricko I watch the toning craze from the side, too hard to determine real from AT these days.
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.... so what happened when this process progresses to a terminal toning at one point? Is the perceived value would keep going up and that the very point of terminal toning (black) crashes?
There you go. Plenty of incentive for the coin artists to do their thing.
I would be a buyer at $.10 for a 1979-D Lincoln. Needs to be really nice though.
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Toning Causes a 2000% or 20x increase in value in a common date modern Lincoln.
Yikes!
Unfortunately the encrusted, black, end stage (CORRODED RIMS) oxidation damage is usually ignored. Coins as this are in the top grade holders because it is considered "market acceptable."
I believe there is an old thread on CU where members argued with me that the rims were not corroded beyond having any natural surface under the black remaining.
In the ideal world, everyone would acknowledge:
@Paradisefound ... Coins that have turned black (terminal), usually do not have any premium attached...unless there is color remaining on focal parts of the coin. Cheers, RickO
Maybe I should have my Avatar 1960 brown penny graded at NGC & post that sucker
I wonder what the coin REALLY looks like in hand and not the funky glamour shots. The seller's photography is all over the place IMHO.
Good news is that you can buy a roll of that date, Bu, for $2 or so.
Then play chemistry experiment until it goes from BU Red to Peacock in a couple hours, send it off for grading, and then take all the ones that croaked and drop them in the scrap copper pile and get back your original investment, and everything else is gravy.
I wish PCGS /NGC had a time ban, like no "toned" coins for 25 years after minting. If they are submitted, they are rejected, and any coins that "magically" turn in slabs are XXXXX'd out of the data base.
In the examples cited, the increase in the toned cent is for the toning AND the seller who has a strong following for the coins he sells and the ones consigned to him with beautiful colors.
IMO, neither coin is worth $5. But then again, to each his own!
Dave
Agreed...
I honestly set a limit of $5 a toned coin.
Most look like crap anyway and I don't trust to pretty ones.
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The image from NGC tells a little different story. If it was vibrant like the auction, it would have a STAR.
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That's a "file" image and not one to show color as one would find with a TrueView or NGC's new image service.
NGC’s photos for toned coins are notoriously lacking. I wouldn’t put much faith in that but the lack of a star surprised me given the eBay pictures.
Lol, send them over this way. I'll tone them for you. Crazy world, guess money does grow on trees. lulz.
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Then believe the sellers image if you must. I won't.
I also reference you to my above comment. If you believe the sellers images, let me know as I have some great coins to sell you.
I think it's a well-known fact that when colorful, market-acceptable toning (i.e., toning that results in the coin going into a slab with a grade) comes into play, the price guides go out the window. Likewise, nobody compiling a pricing guide is going to attempt to take colorful toning into consideration, leaving RD > RB > BN and the assumption that highly developed color the rare exception to the rule as the only viable paradigm.
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what if there is only 1 known BN? wouldnt the price guide reflect that 1 coin? this is a moot point on the 1979-D because pcgs stops listing RB's and BN's in their price guide for dates after the 1950's I believe. But certainly could be applied to other pop 1/0 BNs
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Pretty toning for $10 maybe...
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In hand pics are certainly a hell of a lot closer to the auction photos than that dark NGC scan.
Its a 66 BN which means it has tons of luster and not muted by the color.
I regret not eating more lead paint chips as a youngin , if I had I'd be right in there bidding at this
@Elemint asked: "On average if there is any such thing, about how long does it take for a coin to reach "Terminal Toning". Probably varies fro metal to meta; ie silver, copper. nickel etc."
IMO, no because there are too many variables.
1979-D is a tougher date with nice color.
The seller's pics look heavily juiced to me.
I am leaning heavily toward assisted toning on this one; it's possible it is end-roll toning, but then typically the coin will show wheel marks if it was housed in a tight late 70's "shotgun" roll.
As to value.....I would have estimated this coin at $100-$150.
The seller should be happy......if it sticks.
No. At least PCGS (no idea about NGC) has a policy that it will not list the value of a RB or BN coin higher than that of a RD coin in the same grade. Unfortunately, there is a built in bias.
It is the most beautiful toned Memorial Cent I have ever seen. I sold the second best to the buyer of this 79-D!
The NGC pictures are absolutely not representative of the coin. Just checked and the buyer loved the coin. Perhaps the people that think the pictures were "juiced" are mistaken. In any case believe what you want and if you have coins of that nature perhaps you should send them.
I can vouch for eBay seller GreatToning. He's a fantastic dealer. Very responsive, honest, and fair. I've dealt with him a lot over the past 8 years and I've never had any issues with his sales or his photography. He does try to max out the color on toned coins, but that's what most of the industry leading photographers do: like Phil Arnold of PCGS TrueView and Robec with his RI's, and others. Most people that own and collect toners want to see the optimal view of the coin (color can appear and disappear on coins at certain viewing and lighting angles).
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RE: "Toning Causes a 2000% or 20x increase in value in a common date modern Lincoln"
Uhmmm....no, it's not "toning." It's called "stupidity."
Can we see a photo of it?
- Bob -
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I've said it many times before but you toning-hounds can prove something for yourselves by checking old auction catalogs.
I should think that a majority of the "best" coins are sold in auctions eventually. I wonder how long it takes for a blast white, original commemorative (for example) to become as splendiferous as the ones posted above by
@MrD? I wonder why coins as this were virtually absent from the old auctions when "blast white" was the "in" color of the decades.
BTW, anyone with a decent IQ can figure out how to produce concentric toning on a coin. It's the chemicals producing the colors that may take a day or two to research. I think I may have missed my calling
and got on the wrong side of the hobby/business/profession. 
I wonder why coins as this were virtually absent from the old auctions when "blast white" was the "in" color of the decades.
I have read that back in the day because toning or tarnish was out of favor, many coins were dipped to get the "blast white" result. I have one of the Oregon Commems from the Guttag sale. My understanding was the brothers bought these as they were released. Mine has color.........I'm pretty sure they didn't perform any chemical tricks with it.
- Bob -
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i agree with Robec. When I started collecting back in the 1960's ... it was the BU coins that got the premium. This led to a lot of dipping. Even the 68 Redbook lists BU coins much higher than Unc.
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Can we take this as a reason Kids and Young People are not into Coins? Being a Video Gamer seems like an entirely reasonable interest when put up against $400 Pennies.
Slabbed MS common date morgans are so cheap , someone with deep pockets could probably AT a few thousand in the slabs and really make a killing or kill everyone that paid moon money for toners in the past . Probably a mixture of both. If you had a lot of them in blast white you are just watching prices crater anyway.
Many have tried this and been caught red handed including a notorious eBay AT operation that is still active. The doctors that do the best work are able to work on the coins raw and then pass them by the services.
This seems to be true with RDs. At least i have not found an exception. However it is interesting that sometimes pcgs lists a BN coin higher than a RB in the same grade. This breaks the commonly seen price guide paradigm of BN < RB < RD. I am not sure why or when pcgs breaks this paradigm, but it does happen occasionally. The examples shown below are in the Lincoln Cent Series:
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Splendiferous - WOW - Is that a real word? Sounds pretty cool.
@Rooster1 asked: "Splendiferous - WOW - Is that a real word? Sounds pretty cool."
Yes, it was in a Disney Mickey Mouse Club movie. I'll bet that's where Mary Poppins heard it too.
The PCGS Pop report for 1979-S PR coins shows only one graded BN, only 5 graded RB and 617 graded RD + CA + DC. I did not check to see if this Pop data is still available in CoinFacts. My 1979-S is a 66DCAM:
Colorful toning on an 1979-S seems to be a genuine rarity. Apparently not many coin doctors involved in this date.
OINK