A flood of semi circle toned coins has hit ebay. All proofs from the same well known Seller.
bolivarshagnasty
Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
We've discussed this Seller on numerous occasions here. Their presence seems to grow on ebay with time. They are killing the modern toned market by shear volume of artificially toned coins. They have gassed in the holder, out of the holder, and now blessed by our Host with TrueViews to legitimize their business. I don't know of a modern series they don't AT. The newest targets seem to be Sacagawea's and Lincoln's. Same colors and pattern on everything regardless of date or series.
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As time goes on, I'm getting more and more depressed about this nonsense. Oh man...
Dave
@bolivarshagnasty said: "We've discussed this Seller on numerous occasions here. Their presence seems to grow on ebay with time. They are killing the modern toned market by shear volume of artificially toned coins. They have gassed in the holder, out of the holder, and now blessed by our Host with TrueViews to legitimize their business. I don't know of a modern series they don't AT. The newest targets seem to be Sacagawea's and Lincoln's. Same colors and pattern on everything regardless of date or series."
Be careful. While your research on the seller and the shear volume of these MODERN toned coins has increased (extremely suspicious), I have personally seen proof Lincolns toned as this and still in the Mint case with none of the other coins affected.
Yes, we have all seen them in OGP toned. Go to a typical show and you will see Dealers with a few here and there. I just counted 285 Toned Lincoln Proofs with TrueViews on the first 18 pages of the search "pcgs toned proof". All are priced at 199.99 by the same Seller.
What causes this, high heat?
Can’t we have him arrested and thrown in the dungeons for Life!
So he is toning ultra common widgets? I guess a person can decide to buy or not to buy. Since there are literally a hundred billion examples out there, what is the worry?
Zero interest in such items.
Same here... they look just terrible and unnatural...
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We all have seen the ring toning on older cents. But, you do have to question how it took 50 years for a 1970 cent to tone like that, but only 30 years for the 1990 cent and then only 10 years for the 2009 cent. And they all look just the same.
Like little boxes on the hillside......common as sin and getting even more plentiful each week.
bob
I wonder what this is doing to the market for originally toned coins 🤔
A lot of top pops too.
This one is a Gold Shield top pop:
1968-S 1 CENTS LINCOLN MEMORIAL PENNY BU PCGS PR67RB TARGET TONED NONE HIGHER!
The seller also has a lot of non-toned top pops mixed in.
I'm actually looking to pick up one of these but may wait for another one.
1967 CANADA GOOSE SILVER $1 DOLLAR PCGS PL67 Superb Luster NONE GRADED HIGHER
People are going for colorful tarnish because they think it is special..... due to the fact that for years and years it has been touted here on the forum and all over the hobby. Because of this, these coins command a premium.. usually paid by new collectors (though not exclusively) because they do not know any better. As long as this goes on, the coin doctors will continue to thrive....Cheers, RickO
Both of the coins I posted are Gold Shields. Are all of them Gold Shields?
The Seller Notes says this is Mother Nature's work too.
“This coin shows you what can happen when Mother Nature does it's work and reinforces the slogan of "all that glitters is NOT gold"! The toning quality is VERY high end. This is a super nice piece. It is totally fresh to the market having been graded earlier this year and purchased by us a few weeks ago! The coin clearly was a stunning canvas for Mother Nature to do some incredible work.”
A I wrote, very suspicious. He sure is adding some pretty stuff to the market. In time, they will probably go the "way" of the blue Indians...
Yeah.... Right.... and I have this bridge in Brooklyn that I am selling....Cheers, RickO
Causes buyers like me, to have said for a decade, never buy a toned coin; can't trust them. And that is the sad attitude the coin cookers have given me.
Here is the problem with toning as I see it. Allow me to exaggerate a little to make a point clear. Take a beat up coin that would grade MS-65 and put that kind of color on it and it becomes a 67 * It has gotten way out of hand. In an effort to match the price these beauties sell for (their value), the grade must go up. Trying to put a value on colorful coins in spite of their actual condition is, well... ah, just the way it is. It will stay that way until forever as no one has the power to get "value" out of grading. That's why AU's are commonly graded MS! I'm guilty of it because every company I have worked for since 1990 (the last three TPGS's) wants it done that way.
How fast does all his inventory sell? Does he sell everything and then list new stuff, or does he just keep adding?
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I looked over the completed sales years ago. If real, the sales volume seemed reasonably high.
A lot of the auctions have "Make Offer" so I think people feel like they are getting a deal.
To the pit of misery!!!
1968-S 1c LINCOLN MEMORIAL PENNY BU PCGS PR67RB TARGET TONED HEAD NONE HIGHER!
LOOK AT THIS BEAUTIFUL COIN.....IT IS ....CERTAINLY A COLLECTIBLE COIN !
YOU WILL RARELY.....EVER.....FIND A COIN GRADED THIS WAY.........SO NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO 'BUY IT NOW' !!
THIS COIN IS ONE OF THE MOST DESIRABLE BECAUSE OF THE GRADING...... GET YOURS TODAY.......BUY IT NOW !!
EVERY COLLECTOR LOVES RARE COINS.....AND EVERY COLLECTOR LOVES BEAUTIFUL COINS.
THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO GET ONE OF THE MOST 'DESIRABLE' AMERICAN COINS OF ALL TIME...AND IT'S YOURS FOR THE TAKING
JUST LOOK AT THE FINISH ON THIS COIN !! YOU GET THIS ONE FOR YOUR COLLECTION...JUST PLACE YOUR BID
If you insist on the highest quality coin and colors for your collection, this hand selected piece is for you. An exceptional coin in every way, as nice as the day it was minted
I think I'm gonna throw up!
Dilly Dilly!
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I'm with Insider2. Coins will tone like this naturally due to sulfur in cardboard holders.
Of course, you can also accelerate this with elevated temperature. It blurs the line between "natural" and "artificial" and makes AT stand (as @ricko has said) stand more for accelerated toning.
But it is nearly impossible to know how such toning arose. It borders on libel to claim that it must be artificial.
Or we could abandon the deeply flawed market grading paradigm all together and leave the pricing to the market. It is hard enough to technically grade every series consistently, and basically impossible to be an expert grader AND appraiser for every series.
I remember when our host posted latest changes on CoinFacts. A couple months back, there were 2 full pages of what I felt were modern AT (although I did not see the coins in hand). I wonder if the graders are more lenient on what they consider a $10 or lower valued coin.
The color progression on the first one reminds me of the suspect GC coins that @joebb21 has posted about.
I am afraid that the AT issue is another problem that will cause new collectors to abandon the hobby. If experience is the key to detecting counterfeiting and artificial toning, then how does a person that is just getting started get that experience (especially if the TPG's aren't labeling coins with altered colors as such)? I understand it is tough if not impossible to determine that a coin has altered color. I sure do see a lot that is questionable (to say the least) that isn't labeled as such.
This isn't an issue for me personally, even though I really like toned coins. I don't pay top dollar for a coin for my collection unless I really like it. If I really like a coin, I do not care what anyone else thinks about it. Grade, value, AT/NT or any other judgement by someone else is all subjective anyway, right? I guess I will be able to buy stuff I like cheaper as the customer base for coins continues to shrink.
What does concern me is the fate of those who have recently found an interest in the hobby. I question how many will continue collecting after such a steep learning curve.
Maybe i'm spoiled by having 2 LCS's whose dealers not only care about the hobby, but also care about the people that are customers too. I know I am lucky that I can talk to guys with decades of experience that aren't afraid to share their knowledge with me.
I have high hopes that places like this forum as well as all the kind people here that devote so much time to helping strangers will be enough to carry the hobby through this time of infiltration by the leeches.
Ed
http://www.silverstocker.com
Anyone can PM me Any Time about Any thing.
Some of those Lincolns should have been degreased before they were toned
Thanks @zoins for the info.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
they have over 9000 items listed on ebay and nothing lower than $9 with shipping.
https://ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=283358928498&hash=item41f9821e72%3Ag%3AKigAAOSwdj1cUbjG&_ssn=edynamicmarketing&_sop=15
And then we have such niceties as this beauty-
This guy has been reported several times to more than one entity. No one seems to care.
What is most disturbing is that insider is defending him.
Great work Bolivar!
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Dilly Dilly
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
I have mad my position VERY CLEAR on toned coins for over forty years both in class and in writing. Most recently here on CU:
I have personally seen coins that were untouched by human hands tone in colors and patterns* that no knowledgeable numismatist **including myself would ever in their wildest dreams consider being natural!
Because of this, I have taught and adopted the position (since I'm not God) that if it looks natural, then it is.
HUH? By saying that some of what might be fake might be real, or that fake is replicating real really convincingly?
As in "reality has nuances".
Here’s part of their description for posterity.