@Hemispherical said:
I do not understand how you (buyer/receiver) could file the USPS claim. The seller/sender should be the one to file with USPS.
Something is amiss.
This is my first filing a claim with the USPS and I started at https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm. When you start the claims process online, the submission form asks if the person filing the claim is the "Mailer" or the "Addressee". As the buyer/receiver, I checked the box next to Addressee. The USPS quickly sent me a letter asking me to bring the empty package to a Postmaster for inspection. I took the empty box, the "WE CARE" bag, and the apology letter to my local Post Office. The Postmaster kept everything to send to the Claims Department for inspection. It was at this point that he told me the claim would likely be denied because the Small Flat Rate Box did not have a single piece of tape on it.
I was once told that you're not supposed to tape it if it had a sealing flap.
I would imagine similar with USPS Registered Mail, you must use 3″ wide paper gummed tape to tamperproof and seal the outer edges of your parcel, for regular insured Parcels, the outer edges must be taped shut with invisible tape?
@Hemispherical said:
I do not understand how you (buyer/receiver) could file the USPS claim. The seller/sender should be the one to file with USPS.
Something is amiss.
This is my first filing a claim with the USPS and I started at https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm. When you start the claims process online, the submission form asks if the person filing the claim is the "Mailer" or the "Addressee". As the buyer/receiver, I checked the box next to Addressee. The USPS quickly sent me a letter asking me to bring the empty package to a Postmaster for inspection. I took the empty box, the "WE CARE" bag, and the apology letter to my local Post Office. The Postmaster kept everything to send to the Claims Department for inspection. It was at this point that he told me the claim would likely be denied because the Small Flat Rate Box did not have a single piece of tape on it.
I was once told that you're not supposed to tape it if it had a sealing flap.
I would imagine similar with USPS Registered Mail, you must use 3″ wide paper gummed tape to tamperproof and seal the outer edges of your parcel, for regular insured Parcels, the outer edges must be taped shut with invisible tape?
I usually tape the sealing flap of small flat rate boxes and flat rate envelopes. I was once told that I could put as much into a flat rate envelope as it would hold without taping it.
@Hemispherical said:
I do not understand how you (buyer/receiver) could file the USPS claim. The seller/sender should be the one to file with USPS.
Something is amiss.
This is my first filing a claim with the USPS and I started at https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm. When you start the claims process online, the submission form asks if the person filing the claim is the "Mailer" or the "Addressee". As the buyer/receiver, I checked the box next to Addressee. The USPS quickly sent me a letter asking me to bring the empty package to a Postmaster for inspection. I took the empty box, the "WE CARE" bag, and the apology letter to my local Post Office. The Postmaster kept everything to send to the Claims Department for inspection. It was at this point that he told me the claim would likely be denied because the Small Flat Rate Box did not have a single piece of tape on it.
I was once told that you're not supposed to tape it if it had a sealing flap.
I would imagine similar with USPS Registered Mail, you must use 3″ wide paper gummed tape to tamperproof and seal the outer edges of your parcel, for regular insured Parcels, the outer edges must be taped shut with invisible tape?
2 completely different things. Registered mail requires tape so they can date stamp it, not to prevent it opening. It harkens back to wax seals.
It is wise to deal a priority with tape but not mandatory per regulations
LOL! I can remember 15 or so years ago selling lots of 1100+ wheat cents on ebay. They were metered to just fit in a flat rate priority mail envelope. I used that heavy duty strapping tape to make sure they stayed together. To this day I wish I had a picture of the Postal Lady when she went to pick one up and put it on the scale. I had dozen the 1st time!
@Hemispherical said:
I do not understand how you (buyer/receiver) could file the USPS claim. The seller/sender should be the one to file with USPS.
Something is amiss.
This is my first filing a claim with the USPS and I started at https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm. When you start the claims process online, the submission form asks if the person filing the claim is the "Mailer" or the "Addressee". As the buyer/receiver, I checked the box next to Addressee. The USPS quickly sent me a letter asking me to bring the empty package to a Postmaster for inspection. I took the empty box, the "WE CARE" bag, and the apology letter to my local Post Office. The Postmaster kept everything to send to the Claims Department for inspection. It was at this point that he told me the claim would likely be denied because the Small Flat Rate Box did not have a single piece of tape on it.
I was once told that you're not supposed to tape it if it had a sealing flap.
I would imagine similar with USPS Registered Mail, you must use 3″ wide paper gummed tape to tamperproof and seal the outer edges of your parcel, for regular insured Parcels, the outer edges must be taped shut with invisible tape?
I usually tape the sealing flap of small flat rate boxes and flat rate envelopes. I was once told that I could put as much into a flat rate envelope as it would hold without taping it.
@amwldcoin said:
LOL! I can remember 15 or so years ago selling lots of 1100+ wheat cents on ebay. They were metered to just fit in a flat rate priority mail envelope. I used that heavy duty strapping tape to make sure they stayed together. To this day I wish I had a picture of the Postal Lady when she went to pick one up and put it on the scale. I had dozen the 1st time!
@Hemispherical said:
I do not understand how you (buyer/receiver) could file the USPS claim. The seller/sender should be the one to file with USPS.
Something is amiss.
This is my first filing a claim with the USPS and I started at https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm. When you start the claims process online, the submission form asks if the person filing the claim is the "Mailer" or the "Addressee". As the buyer/receiver, I checked the box next to Addressee. The USPS quickly sent me a letter asking me to bring the empty package to a Postmaster for inspection. I took the empty box, the "WE CARE" bag, and the apology letter to my local Post Office. The Postmaster kept everything to send to the Claims Department for inspection. It was at this point that he told me the claim would likely be denied because the Small Flat Rate Box did not have a single piece of tape on it.
I was once told that you're not supposed to tape it if it had a sealing flap.
I would imagine similar with USPS Registered Mail, you must use 3″ wide paper gummed tape to tamperproof and seal the outer edges of your parcel, for regular insured Parcels, the outer edges must be taped shut with invisible tape?
I usually tape the sealing flap of small flat rate boxes and flat rate envelopes. I was once told that I could put as much into a flat rate envelope as it would hold without taping it.
There was a poster here from Missouri [his handle/name escapes me] who was/is a Lincoln cent variety specialist who one timed posted a detailed spread about he shipped large numbers of cents in flat rate envelopes.
@Hemispherical said:
I do not understand how you (buyer/receiver) could file the USPS claim. The seller/sender should be the one to file with USPS.
Something is amiss.
This is my first filing a claim with the USPS and I started at https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm. When you start the claims process online, the submission form asks if the person filing the claim is the "Mailer" or the "Addressee". As the buyer/receiver, I checked the box next to Addressee. The USPS quickly sent me a letter asking me to bring the empty package to a Postmaster for inspection. I took the empty box, the "WE CARE" bag, and the apology letter to my local Post Office. The Postmaster kept everything to send to the Claims Department for inspection. It was at this point that he told me the claim would likely be denied because the Small Flat Rate Box did not have a single piece of tape on it.
I was once told that you're not supposed to tape it if it had a sealing flap.
I would imagine similar with USPS Registered Mail, you must use 3″ wide paper gummed tape to tamperproof and seal the outer edges of your parcel, for regular insured Parcels, the outer edges must be taped shut with invisible tape?
2 completely different things. Registered mail requires tape so they can date stamp it, not to prevent it opening. It harkens back to wax seals.
It is wise to deal a priority with tape but not mandatory per regulations
I have shipped plenty of packages Registered Mail. I have not used standard USPS Insurance before because I have been under the impression it does not cover most of what I ship. I am going off what my local postmaster said. He said USPS Insurance does not cover packages that have not been secured with tape. I have been unable to find any specifics on the USPS website that states tape is required for insured goods. Maybe my postmaster is incorrect, who knows.
@Hemispherical said:
I do not understand how you (buyer/receiver) could file the USPS claim. The seller/sender should be the one to file with USPS.
Something is amiss.
2 completely different things. Registered mail requires tape so they can date stamp it, not to prevent it opening. It harkens back to wax seals.
It is wise to deal a priority with tape but not mandatory per regulations
I have shipped plenty of packages Registered Mail. I have not used standard USPS Insurance before because I have been under the impression it does not cover most of what I ship. I am going off what my local postmaster said. He said USPS Insurance does not cover packages that have not been secured with tape. I have been unable to find any specifics on the USPS website that states tape is required for insured goods. Maybe my postmaster is incorrect, who knows.
Every postmaster tells a different story.
I'm sure they can CLAIM that your carelessness voids the insurance. Same thing happens if something breaks and they deem it to be insufficiently packed. But there is no REQUIREMENT of tape on all priority packages.
I know this is an old thread, but I would appreciate any response. A couple months ago I sold a Mexican Libertad reverse proof coin with very low mintage (a collector coin in other words) for $300 on eBay and the buyer never received it. I insured with USPS insurance on eBay and filed a claim that included the ebay receipt from the sale. They denied, and I appealed. I again sent the eBay receipt plus the eBay label receipt that states the item and price, and they again denied for lack of proof of value. I can appeal again, but it seems pointless. I suppose I could send the receipt for my purchase of the item from a dealer for about $100 less than I sold it for, but I insured for the price I sold it for. Also, keep in mind eBay does not use Paypal anymore for most coin sales. They take their fees out and then deposit the money in our bank accounts. Otherwise, I'd include the Paypal transaction. Any suggestions on a second appeal? What more can I include?
Heading to Las Vegas to hand deliver my coins to be graded .. Their show start on the 26 of January.. No downside for the theft of goods from the Postal Workers... They have nothing to lose. JMO
@jmlanzaf said:
Hopefully, you didn't make the mistake of paying by check or via "friends and family"
I paid with PayPal Goods & Services. Any idea if this covers empty packages or item lost in transit?
Ok. Since you used paypal you can file a paypal claim. I think you should get your money back from paypal but for the seller he needs to file a USPS claim. He can do that online. He needs to provide prove of the value and it might take a while to process it. I did it once with USPS when some of the catalog that I sold on ebay lost in the mail. I just used the ebay invoice and usps paid for it very fast. I am not sure about coin because many have said USPS did not pay for the coin.
@LGTheCoinAnalyst said:
I know this is an old thread, but I would appreciate any response. A couple months ago I sold a Mexican Libertad reverse proof coin with very low mintage (a collector coin in other words) for $300 on eBay and the buyer never received it. I insured with USPS insurance on eBay and filed a claim that included the ebay receipt from the sale. They denied, and I appealed. I again sent the eBay receipt plus the eBay label receipt that states the item and price, and they again denied for lack of proof of value. I can appeal again, but it seems pointless. I suppose I could send the receipt for my purchase of the item from a dealer for about $100 less than I sold it for, but I insured for the price I sold it for. Also, keep in mind eBay does not use Paypal anymore for most coin sales. They take their fees out and then deposit the money in our bank accounts. Otherwise, I'd include the Paypal transaction. Any suggestions on a second appeal? What more can I include?
I don't understand USPS's logic, your ebay sale's receipt should be the prove of value. I wonder if you sue USPS in the small claim court how the court would rule on it.
I just finished an experience with a USPS claim, and as many here have said they do not like to pay their claims. They will always make the issue "proof of value", but if you have the ebay transaction and proof you were paid you should be covered. But they will make it miserable for you and likely deny the claim a couple times.
In my case I provided an invoice, statement of value by a coin dealer, and a copy of the refund check, and still they denied it twice. I was on my final appeal when the coin was delivered after 59 days.
I will be using private insurance in the future.
Thanks to all. By he way, I even included a copy of the refund to the buyer too. I can certainly get a dealer I know to send a statement that he agrees the coin sells for what the buyer paid (or more). I can also include the latest eBay completed sales, which are at or above what the buyer paid. One problem is that eBay does not use Paypal for payments as I mentioned. And my bank info. just says payment from eBay not what it was for, but that should not matter if I had the receipt which states the coin, amount, buyer and seller. I will make one final try and if that does not work, so be it. It's a tax loss, and a lesson to use private insurance only.
@LGTheCoinAnalyst said:
[...] Any suggestions on a second appeal? What more can I include?
The USPS 'Domestic Mail Manual' (DMM) includes the following in their "claims" section:
"For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the fair market value determination must be current and prior to the mailing date."
Source: USPS Domestic Mail Manual; Section 609 - Filing Indemnity Claims for Loss or Damage; Sub-Section 4.1.g
If you sell to a coin dealer or auction house (ex: Heritage or GreatCollections), would you be able to just include the invoice/proof of purchase to satisfy USPS?
Alright I've got them now! EBay does not make it easy to find records more than a couple months old but I went to the original e-mail from the sale and used that to print the packing slip that shows everything very clearly and the refund of the payment to the buyer. If they deny this, I am contacting my member of congress. From now on I will be very careful to print 2 copies of those slips, as they are the best proof of sale if you need it, and one goes to buyer. For those of you who sell online, always include the packing slip/receipt and keep a copy for yourself.
@LGTheCoinAnalyst said:
Alright I've got them now! EBay does not make it easy to find records more than a couple months old but I went to the original e-mail from the sale and used that to print the packing slip that shows everything very clearly and the refund of the payment to the buyer. If they deny this, I am contacting my member of congress. From now on I will be very careful to print 2 copies of those slips, as they are the best proof of sale if you need it, and one goes to buyer. For those of you who sell online, always include the packing slip/receipt and keep a copy for yourself.
My shipping dept mainly ships registered (95-98%). We place a packing slip in each parcel. We have a second packing list attached to the E-Bay sales listing (including price + picture of the coin). We further attach the PO receipt to the E-Bay sale.
Fortunately, we've only had to claim on 1 parcel (tracking showed the coin in China not chicago) and received a check within a week. E-Bay suggested I contact the buyer who verified he received the parcel. I immediately sent the check back to the PO. I'm too old to look for trouble.
On a lighter note... We did have to close the store in DEcember (1 month) as my wife was tired of shipping the coins. That gave the addict in the house a chance to fill up the store.
Nightmare. Denied twice before someone listened and then they didn't believe.
Sent a very rare rifle to my son in a made for shipping carton. Designed expressly for this rifle. Arrived at destination with a stock that was broken in three places and tire marks across the outside of the carton. Rifle is so rare that finding an original stock to replace would likely take months if not longer. Not one was found in the allotted timeframe and they were about to shut me down completely when I finally agreed to a stock newly made. I eventually did find a stock, not near the condition of mine, and put it on, but am not able to talk to anyone about the extra $1,500 I had to spend. Nightmare, and proof of damage by PO was more than obvious. I can say that I am very happy they didn't destroy the metal. Insured for true value of rifle but they would not pay as "it could be replaced (stock)".
Proving value was not the problem except that all sales of this rifle were at least two years or more old and that was not acceptable either. My gunshop did provide a letter of value on the rifle but could not break down the rifle/stock price separately.
So, be careful and document and I hope it is not extremely rare or unique.
PS: It is legal to send a rifle through the Postal Service, just not handguns unless you are in a dealer to dealer transaction.
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
@LGTheCoinAnalyst said:
[...] I can certainly get a dealer I know to send a statement that he agrees the coin sells for what the buyer paid (or more). [...]
This, just be cognizant of the date requirements.
You purchased USPS insurance. Now, you are filing a claim with the USPS. It is rational to follow the USPS rules for filing a claim.
The USPS rules for determining "market value" for coins were posted above. IMHO, it seems that the USPS wants verification of value from a third party. Regardless of their motivation, the documentation requirements for coins of "numismatic value" are fairly explicit.
I sincerely hope that your efforts yield the desired results.
@ARCO said:
The USPS doesn't pay claims...at least from my experience. There will always be some reason that it is not their fault.
Not true. I filed a claim once for 3 Morgan dollars and got the payment. It took exactly 6 months till I my check, thou.
I don't remember the exact process. The seller must file and then the purchaser needs to do some paperwork and then the PO does something. A long drawn-out process, at least my case was.
Comments
I would imagine similar with USPS Registered Mail, you must use 3″ wide paper gummed tape to tamperproof and seal the outer edges of your parcel, for regular insured Parcels, the outer edges must be taped shut with invisible tape?
References: ChrisRx, Gerard, commoncents05, jrt103, jfoot13 & JohnT58
I usually tape the sealing flap of small flat rate boxes and flat rate envelopes. I was once told that I could put as much into a flat rate envelope as it would hold without taping it.
2 completely different things. Registered mail requires tape so they can date stamp it, not to prevent it opening. It harkens back to wax seals.
It is wise to deal a priority with tape but not mandatory per regulations
LOL! I can remember 15 or so years ago selling lots of 1100+ wheat cents on ebay. They were metered to just fit in a flat rate priority mail envelope. I used that heavy duty strapping tape to make sure they stayed together. To this day I wish I had a picture of the Postal Lady when she went to pick one up and put it on the scale. I had dozen the 1st time!
There was a poster here from Missouri [his handle/name escapes me] who was/is a Lincoln cent variety specialist who one timed posted a detailed spread about he shipped large numbers of cents in flat rate envelopes.
I have shipped plenty of packages Registered Mail. I have not used standard USPS Insurance before because I have been under the impression it does not cover most of what I ship. I am going off what my local postmaster said. He said USPS Insurance does not cover packages that have not been secured with tape. I have been unable to find any specifics on the USPS website that states tape is required for insured goods. Maybe my postmaster is incorrect, who knows.
References: ChrisRx, Gerard, commoncents05, jrt103, jfoot13 & JohnT58
Every postmaster tells a different story.
I'm sure they can CLAIM that your carelessness voids the insurance. Same thing happens if something breaks and they deem it to be insufficiently packed. But there is no REQUIREMENT of tape on all priority packages.
I know this is an old thread, but I would appreciate any response. A couple months ago I sold a Mexican Libertad reverse proof coin with very low mintage (a collector coin in other words) for $300 on eBay and the buyer never received it. I insured with USPS insurance on eBay and filed a claim that included the ebay receipt from the sale. They denied, and I appealed. I again sent the eBay receipt plus the eBay label receipt that states the item and price, and they again denied for lack of proof of value. I can appeal again, but it seems pointless. I suppose I could send the receipt for my purchase of the item from a dealer for about $100 less than I sold it for, but I insured for the price I sold it for. Also, keep in mind eBay does not use Paypal anymore for most coin sales. They take their fees out and then deposit the money in our bank accounts. Otherwise, I'd include the Paypal transaction. Any suggestions on a second appeal? What more can I include?
Heading to Las Vegas to hand deliver my coins to be graded .. Their show start on the 26 of January.. No downside for the theft of goods from the Postal Workers... They have nothing to lose. JMO
Ok. Since you used paypal you can file a paypal claim. I think you should get your money back from paypal but for the seller he needs to file a USPS claim. He can do that online. He needs to provide prove of the value and it might take a while to process it. I did it once with USPS when some of the catalog that I sold on ebay lost in the mail. I just used the ebay invoice and usps paid for it very fast. I am not sure about coin because many have said USPS did not pay for the coin.
I don't understand USPS's logic, your ebay sale's receipt should be the prove of value. I wonder if you sue USPS in the small claim court how the court would rule on it.
I have read here of denied claims and sometimes it takes a couple of tries
Are there any online dealers with this in stock?
I just finished an experience with a USPS claim, and as many here have said they do not like to pay their claims. They will always make the issue "proof of value", but if you have the ebay transaction and proof you were paid you should be covered. But they will make it miserable for you and likely deny the claim a couple times.
In my case I provided an invoice, statement of value by a coin dealer, and a copy of the refund check, and still they denied it twice. I was on my final appeal when the coin was delivered after 59 days.
I will be using private insurance in the future.
Thanks to all. By he way, I even included a copy of the refund to the buyer too. I can certainly get a dealer I know to send a statement that he agrees the coin sells for what the buyer paid (or more). I can also include the latest eBay completed sales, which are at or above what the buyer paid. One problem is that eBay does not use Paypal for payments as I mentioned. And my bank info. just says payment from eBay not what it was for, but that should not matter if I had the receipt which states the coin, amount, buyer and seller. I will make one final try and if that does not work, so be it. It's a tax loss, and a lesson to use private insurance only.
The USPS 'Domestic Mail Manual' (DMM) includes the following in their "claims" section:
"For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the fair market value determination must be current and prior to the mailing date."
Source: USPS Domestic Mail Manual; Section 609 - Filing Indemnity Claims for Loss or Damage; Sub-Section 4.1.g
Edited for a typo.
If you sell to a coin dealer or auction house (ex: Heritage or GreatCollections), would you be able to just include the invoice/proof of purchase to satisfy USPS?
Alright I've got them now! EBay does not make it easy to find records more than a couple months old but I went to the original e-mail from the sale and used that to print the packing slip that shows everything very clearly and the refund of the payment to the buyer. If they deny this, I am contacting my member of congress. From now on I will be very careful to print 2 copies of those slips, as they are the best proof of sale if you need it, and one goes to buyer. For those of you who sell online, always include the packing slip/receipt and keep a copy for yourself.
My shipping dept mainly ships registered (95-98%). We place a packing slip in each parcel. We have a second packing list attached to the E-Bay sales listing (including price + picture of the coin). We further attach the PO receipt to the E-Bay sale.
Fortunately, we've only had to claim on 1 parcel (tracking showed the coin in China not chicago) and received a check within a week. E-Bay suggested I contact the buyer who verified he received the parcel. I immediately sent the check back to the PO. I'm too old to look for trouble.
On a lighter note... We did have to close the store in DEcember (1 month) as my wife was tired of shipping the coins. That gave the addict in the house a chance to fill up the store.
Nightmare. Denied twice before someone listened and then they didn't believe.
Sent a very rare rifle to my son in a made for shipping carton. Designed expressly for this rifle. Arrived at destination with a stock that was broken in three places and tire marks across the outside of the carton. Rifle is so rare that finding an original stock to replace would likely take months if not longer. Not one was found in the allotted timeframe and they were about to shut me down completely when I finally agreed to a stock newly made. I eventually did find a stock, not near the condition of mine, and put it on, but am not able to talk to anyone about the extra $1,500 I had to spend. Nightmare, and proof of damage by PO was more than obvious. I can say that I am very happy they didn't destroy the metal. Insured for true value of rifle but they would not pay as "it could be replaced (stock)".
Proving value was not the problem except that all sales of this rifle were at least two years or more old and that was not acceptable either. My gunshop did provide a letter of value on the rifle but could not break down the rifle/stock price separately.
So, be careful and document and I hope it is not extremely rare or unique.
PS: It is legal to send a rifle through the Postal Service, just not handguns unless you are in a dealer to dealer transaction.
This, just be cognizant of the date requirements.
You purchased USPS insurance. Now, you are filing a claim with the USPS. It is rational to follow the USPS rules for filing a claim.
The USPS rules for determining "market value" for coins were posted above. IMHO, it seems that the USPS wants verification of value from a third party. Regardless of their motivation, the documentation requirements for coins of "numismatic value" are fairly explicit.
I sincerely hope that your efforts yield the desired results.
Not true. I filed a claim once for 3 Morgan dollars and got the payment. It took exactly 6 months till I my check, thou.
I don't remember the exact process. The seller must file and then the purchaser needs to do some paperwork and then the PO does something. A long drawn-out process, at least my case was.