Does anybody here have experience filing an insurance claim to USPS?
ilmoam
Posts: 29 ✭
I am looking for thoughts and/or advice from anybody that has gone through the USPS Insurance Claim process. I received an empty USPS Small Flat Rate Box package today that was supposed to contain almost $100fv of 90% Half Dollars. The box appears to have been opened and emptied during transit. The empty box was placed inside of a WE CARE BAG with a sticker stating RECEIVED WITHOUT CONTENTS. The seller fully insured my package, but neither of us have gone through the claims process. Has anybody here actually filed a claim with the Post Office and won? Are 90% Silver US Half Dollars covered? This was a private transaction, not through eBay. Any thoughts, advice, opinions, or experiences would be greatly appreciated!
References: ChrisRx, Gerard, commoncents05, jrt103, jfoot13 & JohnT58
Comments
I believe that it is the responsibility of the sender to file a claim. Been lucky and have never filed a PO insurance claim. others will have comprehensive advice.
Since it's money you might get reimbursed for face value if they insure money. If it's bullion then no coverage unless it went registered. good luck.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I have one time many years ago. I shipped a coin Registered mail and insured for $1500 that arrived only as an empty damaged package. I had to go file the claim. I eventually got the $1500 after a couple months and many questions about what was the item and could I prove its value, etc. The seller should refund your $ and seek his money from the USPS. Good Luck.
Hopefully, you didn't make the mistake of paying by check or via "friends and family"
I paid with PayPal Goods & Services. Any idea if this covers empty packages or item lost in transit?
References: ChrisRx, Gerard, commoncents05, jrt103, jfoot13 & JohnT58
Someone on another forum referred me to the following link: http://about.usps.com/publications/pub122/pub122_v07_revision_092016_013.htm
h. The fair market value for collectible stamps of philatelic value or for coins of numismatic value, determined as follows:
The fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the determined fair market value must be the most recent available (but before the mailing date).
This is uncharted territory for me and the seller. I am trying to gather as much info as I can to help him.
References: ChrisRx, Gerard, commoncents05, jrt103, jfoot13 & JohnT58
There is no "win". USPS has already admitted culpability. The problem is bullion if you shipped priority as it isn't insurable.
Not your problem. If the seller doesn't refund your money, file a charge back. It will be the seller's problem to deal with USPS.
Cash equivalents are problematic. They are almost always the exception to insurance
I am grateful for the feedback, thank you!
References: ChrisRx, Gerard, commoncents05, jrt103, jfoot13 & JohnT58
You as the buyer should get refunded via paypal. Your seller will get the shaft, maybe recover $100 for the FV but no "bullion" value even though package was insured at that amount. They will gladly take your money in insurance premium but good luck getting payout from claim.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
I had to file a claim years ago on some bulk circ dollars I sent to a wholesaler.
PO said I had to have evidence of cost for each coin. Told them I buy in batches all the time and the buys would be scattered over months.
They wouldn't budge.
I had to get my congressman involved to shove the PO claim down their throat.
Took time.
Wasn't fun
Send them a page from the Red Book for 1964 dimes, quarters, and half dollars or 1921 Morgan Dollars (the cheapest).... Use the lowest grade and multiply by the number of coins.
OP, don't use the word "junk silver," "90%," or "bullion." File it as numismatic coins circa xyz year and use the information above for valuation.
The person who is getting the check from the insurance is the one to fill out the form.
The process is very simple just fill in the online form, attach the photos of the packaging , the "we care bag", the invoice from the person you bought the item from, and the receipt of mailing from the originating post office.
It's the responsibility of the sender. They just have to prove the value of the contents. Which I think is BS!!
You should be able to insure a "DOG TURD" for $1000 and if they lose it...….they owe you $1000!!!!!!!
If Bullion is not covered then call these collectible coins with a value of $6 each... or whatever the going rate is. Hope it works out for both of you.
Good advice. bullion is bars and eagles.
I'm in the process of one right now. Not lost but broken (gun stock). Denied twice for non proof of value. Also denied because the PO where it arrived damaged "forgot" to fill out the form and send it in saying they inspected the item and the packaging within the 20 days allotted.
Doubt I'll be made whole. Have provided everything they asked including my receipt for a replacement stock.
Good luck,
bob
PS: I'm an FFL and followed all the rules for shipping a rifle through the USPS system.
The USPS doesn't pay claims...at least from my experience. There will always be some reason that it is not their fault.
No luck with claims at USPS, EBay, or PayPal. With the latter being facilitators of fraud.
This issue has been resolved about 20 years ago. The congressman forced the issue QUICK!
for purchases paid with paypal or purchased on ebay, both consider the seller to be responsible for an item until delivery/signature confirmation is posted on-line by the shipping agent. Shipping problems are the seller's problem, but the buyer needs to assist the seller with required info. In this particular case buyer has proof from USPS that item was delivered without contents. In this case seller should make refund and file the claim with input/pics from the seller.
Payments should always be made by paypal or credit card, giving the buyer recourse.
Filing USPS claims
Ebay, paypal and USPS have never failed me on a valid claim.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
I have NEVER had them NOT pay a claim
I did about 10 years ago, now I use so much tape they would need to actually cut open. The small flat rate boxes can be rather easily opened at one end without tape. If postage and insurance bought t a post office, the high shipping charge with insurance and heavy weight is a 'steal me' signal for contractors loading/driving trucks.
A copy of price agreed upon for sale/ invoice will determine value. Signatures had to supplied by sender, receiver and post office of receiver. The insurance does not cover cash, but does for collectibles. It took a few weeks and then paid to sender.
I have heard that in last few years they routinely deny, in which an appeal process has to be followed.
Help the seller with process by supplying pictures and signatures but they should reimburse you before the weeks taken for USPS to reimburse them because shipping packaging security was their responsibly.
We have filed a fair amount of claims over the years (we ship thousands of packages a year), and it is a very simple and fast process overall.
In this scenario, the seller would be the one to file a claim as they are the sender. All they need is the tracking # to start the claim on the USPS website. And to provide a value for the claim, all they need to do is upload the transaction receipt from PayPal, or they can make a simple invoice using Word or Excel which states the transaction details and upload that.
If they provide the above information, the claim should be processed within a week or so.
Also to note, the USPS does insure collectible coins and precious metals if you describe them using certain terms. Always state that they are collectible coins or metals when filing a claim with the USPS (never use the word "bullion").
Yes and it was horrible. I wish I had something positive to say about the USPS. I don’t
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Never had an issue with a claim. Only filed 2-3 in the last 30 years, and we ship hundreds of packages/week.
They are actually pretty darn good if you consider the volume they ship.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
I did pay with PayPal Goods and Services. Hopefully this will protect me.
References: ChrisRx, Gerard, commoncents05, jrt103, jfoot13 & JohnT58
Keep it simple and straight to the point. Too much information gives fuel to delay. If this is something you bought make sure to notify the sending party. Include state of package when received. The postal company is using large machines that can grab corners especially on heavy items and those end up dumping the content within the 10 football field long conveyor. You can’t assume postal EE stole anything remember that the people you are filing claim with are EE too. If paid by cc notify cc company ask for refund. Good luck
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Any "bullion" issue should be between the seller fling the claim and USPS.
Paypal protection remains the same whether using a CC, paypal balance or a bank account as long as it is through PP. The advantage of using a CC through PP is that you have better protection with the CC than with PP. File first with PP, then if necessary file with the CC. Don't file both at the same time, slows things down. With PP do it over the phone and tell them to go ahead and escalate it to a "claim." There will be some time that they allow the seller to provide a response.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
I'm in the process of a claim with the USPS at the moment. I sold a ring on Ebay that I created from a 1 oz Gold American Eagle in early December. The package arrived with the contents removed, and I had a very frustrated customer on my hands. Since I was the one who purchased the insurance, I reimbursed the customer from my own pocket, and also filed a claim with the USPS. It's taken a while, but I learned last week that the claim was approved and I would be receiving my refund check soon. It's only the second time I've had to file, but both times I was made whole. Good luck! I hope it works out well for you and the seller!
Totally agree, that's why I self insure anything under $500 and most things under $1000. The insurance cost is exorbitant given the minor delivery issues.
How did you ship with USPS? Was postage amount on the package?
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
I did it once. No issue at all. Very fast payment.
Just once. Many years ago a collectible I shipped was lost. Filed. Claim was paid after one month.
nm
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
The seller/shipper is the one who files since he bought the insurance.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I shipped the package, Priority/Insured, with a signature required. It was a prepaid postage, insured for, $1600. The postage amount was not on the label.
Also, when I filed the claim, I was able to upload the Ebay invoice. I didn't have to provide any other proof of value. The buyer shipped the opened package back to me, which I had had to take to my local post office (written request from the USPS). For all I knew, the buyer received the package, removed the contents, and then filed a claim with Ebay. By the way, there weren't any USPS markings that indicated that the package had been opened. To be honest, I didn't think I had any chance, but I was elated when I saw online that the claim had been approved. Woo hoo!
Lots already been said, and most true. Post office offers insurance, but they don't like paying out claims on any thing coin/bullion related. I once had a package of Morgan $ get rifled/missing. Post office denied it twice, incl a denial from HQ atlanta office. I filled out the forms exactly as required, first one was something to the affect of verifying and proving value.(snt original receipt) second time had something to do with address where delivered. I was actually going to give up, but luckily at the time , one of my customers son worked for the postal inspections dept out in western NC, and intervened, He was able to get the claim paid after about 13 months. Come to find out, it was an internal theft, within a distribution facility (all I was able to be told) .
I honestly don't know why I even bother sending coins insured, as it would be literally a long drawn out process to recoup any monies, but most cases I still do, especially on higher dollar items. if sending anything larger to some of the bigger dealers, I try and use there private insurance to cover mine in the event something goes wrong.
I have had luck in limiting the time of exposure (less time in somebody else's hands) on higher dollar value packages vs jacking up insurance or using registered. For example. sending it express in a secure double box, at the fastest possible way.
For example like sending to apmex. I can also request earlier arrival time for like 5 -7 bucks extra. So say I ship out a package Monday for Oklahoma, Ill wait till 3pm send to apmex and it will be noon delivery next day for extra few bucks. vs say dropping off at 9am at my location, and getting standard overnight delivery by end of day. (less time in hands of anyone but me, means less possible time for item to get missing, etc.
Take a lot of photos of that USPS bag and don't bother taking the package out of it just keep it as it. If you do rummage inside do it in front of your postal inspector. Even if your seller does nothing as long as this parcel was insured that bag is your ticket toward getting a claim escalated toward a more speedy loss reimbursement check.
My seller is working on the insurance claim with USPS. If I have to file a claim with PayPal, does anybody know if the PayPal Buyer Purchase Protection will cover my purchase of 90% US Silver coins? I was browsing PayPal's Acceptable Use policy and it states the following:
Service Requiring Pre-Approval
Airlines and scheduled or non-scheduled charters/jets/air taxi operators; collecting donations as a charity or non-profit organization; dealing in jewels, precious metals and stones; acting as a money transmitter or selling stored value cards; selling stocks, bonds, securities, options, futures (forex) or an investment interest in any entity or property; or providing escrow services.
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full
References: ChrisRx, Gerard, commoncents05, jrt103, jfoot13 & JohnT58
NO, bullion or cash equivalent is not covered. However, if you call it "collectible coins" it should be.
Ask your seller to refund you while he's working on the claim. You don't have to wait.
I tried asking the seller for a refund few times, he did not want to do that. The seller suggested I file a claim with PayPal and file the insurance claim with the Post Office, so I did both. I submitted a detailed timeline of events and pictures to both PayPal and the USPS and called the missing contents a "Numismatic Collectible Coin Collection". The USPS is still reviewing my insurance claim, but the Postmaster told me my claim would likely be denied because the box was not properly taped. PayPal ultimately ruled in my favor and issued the refund!!! The seller has appealed the decision with PayPal though. I went from feeling like I was made whole again to now be worried and anxious all over. The seller has insisted throughout the ordeal that he would makes things right for me if PayPal and USPS didn't. I am obviously not out of the woods yet, just wanted to provide an update.
References: ChrisRx, Gerard, commoncents05, jrt103, jfoot13 & JohnT58
I do not understand how you (buyer/receiver) could file the USPS claim. The seller/sender should be the one to file with USPS.
Something is amiss.
This is my first filing a claim with the USPS and I started at https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm. When you start the claims process online, the submission form asks if the person filing the claim is the "Mailer" or the "Addressee". As the buyer/receiver, I checked the box next to Addressee. The USPS quickly sent me a letter asking me to bring the empty package to a Postmaster for inspection. I took the empty box, the "WE CARE" bag, and the apology letter to my local Post Office. The Postmaster kept everything to send to the Claims Department for inspection. It was at this point that he told me the claim would likely be denied because the Small Flat Rate Box did not have a single piece of tape on it.
References: ChrisRx, Gerard, commoncents05, jrt103, jfoot13 & JohnT58
Thanks for the clarification.
The seller is jerking you around imo. He/she should refund you with the current evidence. It is his job to get his money back not yours.
I have filed on these types of disasters, I don't know why the usps is not fully culpable up to the total insured value instead of "market value", which is subjective. An insurance contract is based on the shipping company being totally liable for the delivery of the shipped item based on declared values. Also I don't like how the claim form has limited numbers of categories, as if "cash" or "coins" shipped are non-numismatic. You can easily have "cash" or "coins" being worth 100-1000+ melt value.
Go to your local post office - honest, this is step one. They MIGHT have the contents sitting there. (mine did!!)
Second, use this link on the USPS website and file a claim. Ask the seller to do the same.
https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm
Also, it is the SELLER's responsibility to deliver the items.....including packaging correctly.
I was once told that you're not supposed to tape it if it had a sealing flap.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876