All time GOAT

craig44

lets keep this to team sports and no horses. Now that Brady has 6, who is the greatest of all time in team sports history?
Brady
Jordan
gretzky
someone else?

what do you think?

DIMEMAN

I'll stick with Jordan.

bronco2078

gretzky? but lets add mario to the choices

Darin

Babe Ruth

1951WheatiesPremium

Names Deserving of Consideration (by sport)

Multi-Sport
Jim Thorpe
Dave Winfield
Bo Jackson
Jackie Robinson

Hoops
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Kareem Abdul Jabbar

Baseball
Babe Ruth

Hockey
Wayne Gretzky
Gordie Howe
Mario Lemieux
Bobby Orr

Football
Joe Montana
Jim Brown
Tom Brady
Lawrence Taylor
Walter Payton
Red Grange
Sammy Baugh

Stream of consciousness list so don’t read into the order. I just tried to do it quickly - no offense to anyone left off. Names to get some chatter up...

Aside from Ruth, I see no hands down guy in the other sport...

Outhaul

If you're going to include baseball, you can't leave out Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio.

stevek

When combining everything, including championships, I gotta say Babe Ruth.

galaxy27

carson wentz
quincy carter
sergio garcia

DIMEMAN

@stevek said:
When combining everything, including championships, I gotta say Babe Ruth.

If you go all around in BB.....IT HAS TO BE WILLIE MAYS.........hands down....case closed....he had all the tools.

As far as HR's... Hammering Hank is the GOAT. Juiced players don't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence!

stevek

@galaxy27 said:
carson wentz
quincy carter
sergio garcia

February 4, 2029 12:02PM

Your first choice may be valid ten years from now.

stevek

@DIMEMAN said:

@stevek said:
When combining everything, including championships, I gotta say Babe Ruth.

If you go all around in BB.....IT HAS TO BE WILLIE MAYS.........hands down....case closed....he had all the tools.

As far as HR's... Hammering Hank is the GOAT. Juiced players don't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence!

I've got Mays third on my all time hitters list so I've got a lot of respect for Willie.

But Ruth transcended the game, plus he was a great pitcher.

hammer1

Gretzky

Coinstartled

We can't agree on a GOAT for a given position. You want one for all team sports??

My choice is Barry Sanders. Not the most productive, but without debate, the greatest pure athlete in any team sport

1951WheatiesPremium

I’m not trying to hijack the thread but I'm going to mention something with Dave Winfield; he’s on the short list of guys drafted in three major sports.

ahopkins

Yogi won 10.

DIMEMAN

@Coinstartled said:
We can't agree on a GOAT for a given position. You want one for all team sports??

My choice is Barry Sanders. Not the most productive, but without debate, the greatest pure athlete in any team sport

LOL ROTFLMAO...…...Good athlete yes......greatest pure athlete...……………..NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!

ahopkins

Bill Russell and Henri Richard each won 11.

Tabe

What exactly is the argument in favor of Bill Russell other than "he won a bunch of titles" since that also applies to a gazillion of his teammates?

larryallen73

Somehow many people in Nor Cal still think Montana is better than Brady. I don't get that.

1951WheatiesPremium

@Tabe said:
What exactly is the argument in favor of Bill Russell other than "he won a bunch of titles" since that also applies to a gazillion of his teammates?

Imagine a guy who could dominate a basketball game with defense the way Michael Jordan did with offense.

That’s Bill Russell in a nutshell.

Part of the problem for people watching today’s game is there is no defense played at all. Bill Murray played more defense in Space Jam.

perkdog

@Coinstartled said:
We can't agree on a GOAT for a given position. You want one for all team sports??

My choice is Barry Sanders. Not the most productive, but without debate, the greatest pure athlete in any team sport

“Not the most productive” is very confusing to me. He is my GOAT RB but not the best ever NFL player. He was very productive lol

Darin

I just wish we could go back to the days when goat meant you choked and you're a miserable failure.
What is the new name for what goat used to mean anyway?

hammer1

@Darin said:
I just wish we could go back to the days when goat meant you choked and you're a miserable failure.
What is the new name for what goat used to mean anyway?

Goff

JoeBanzai

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:
What exactly is the argument in favor of Bill Russell other than "he won a bunch of titles" since that also applies to a gazillion of his teammates?

Imagine a guy who could dominate a basketball game with defense the way Michael Jordan did with offense.

That’s Bill Russell in a nutshell.

Part of the problem for people watching today’s game is there is no defense played at all. Bill Murray played more defense in Space Jam.

Did you ever look at Wilt's rebounding numbers?

Just sayin'

Coinstartled

@DIMEMAN said:

@Coinstartled said:
We can't agree on a GOAT for a given position. You want one for all team sports??

My choice is Barry Sanders. Not the most productive, but without debate, the greatest pure athlete in any team sport

LOL ROTFLMAO...…...Good athlete yes......greatest pure athlete...……………..NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!

Without debate.

Edwin> @perkdog said:

@Coinstartled said:
We can't agree on a GOAT for a given position. You want one for all team sports??

My choice is Barry Sanders. Not the most productive, but without debate, the greatest pure athlete in any team sport

“Not the most productive” is very confusing to me. He is my GOAT RB but not the best ever NFL player. He was very productive lol

Well I said non debatable so i won't debate it. He was the finest gentleman to ever wear a Detroit uniform and left the game controversy free.

perkdog

@Coinstartled said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@Coinstartled said:
We can't agree on a GOAT for a given position. You want one for all team sports??

My choice is Barry Sanders. Not the most productive, but without debate, the greatest pure athlete in any team sport

LOL ROTFLMAO...…...Good athlete yes......greatest pure athlete...……………..NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!

Without debate.

Edwin> @perkdog said:

@Coinstartled said:
We can't agree on a GOAT for a given position. You want one for all team sports??

My choice is Barry Sanders. Not the most productive, but without debate, the greatest pure athlete in any team sport

“Not the most productive” is very confusing to me. He is my GOAT RB but not the best ever NFL player. He was very productive lol

Well I said non debatable so i won't debate it. He was the finest gentleman to ever wear a Detroit uniform and left the game controversy free.

Honestly that’s fine because there is really nothing to debate about Barry Sanders and a lack of production, it’s really just nonsense. Carry on 🍻

1951WheatiesPremium

@JoeBanzai said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:
What exactly is the argument in favor of Bill Russell other than "he won a bunch of titles" since that also applies to a gazillion of his teammates?

Imagine a guy who could dominate a basketball game with defense the way Michael Jordan did with offense.

That’s Bill Russell in a nutshell.

Part of the problem for people watching today’s game is there is no defense played at all. Bill Murray played more defense in Space Jam.

Did you ever look at Wilt's rebounding numbers?

Just sayin'

Yes - he was on my original list.

I was asked what’s so great about Russell, not Wilt. My favorite Wilt stat is that he averaged 48.1 minutes per game one season. (There’s only 48 minutes per game.)

stevek

Wilt is clearly the GOAT for the game of basketball. Everyone who has a basic, fundamental comprehension of what GOAT is all about agrees with that.

I don't see a "greatest of all time in team sports history" in football. And i don't know nearly enough to comment about hockey, soccer, etc. So my focus is only on the three top major team sports.

So it really only comes down to Ruth and Chamberlain, and I throw out Wilt because of circumstances beyond his control. He didn't win enough championships surrounded by far less talented players than the Celtics. If Wilt had been on more championship teams, it would have been a very tough call between him and Ruth.

Ruth did it all, hitting, pitching, championships, promoting, helped save MLB after the Black Sox scandal, etc, etc, etc, and in my view he is clearly the non-debatable GOAT of the thread topic.

Tabe

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:
What exactly is the argument in favor of Bill Russell other than "he won a bunch of titles" since that also applies to a gazillion of his teammates?

Imagine a guy who could dominate a basketball game with defense the way Michael Jordan did with offense.

That’s Bill Russell in a nutshell.

Part of the problem for people watching today’s game is there is no defense played at all. Bill Murray played more defense in Space Jam.

To be honest, that still doesn't really make the case. And that's even conceding the rather ludicrous notion that a guy who doesn't have the ball can possibly dominate a game similar to a dominant offensive player.

For his defense to put him in the GOAT discussion, in order to overcome his absolutely pedestrian 15ppg career average, he'd have to be so far ahead defensively of absolutely everyone that it's not even funny. That wasn't the case. Instead, you have guys like Jordan & Pippen, who were elite defenders and light years ahead offensively. And nobody considers Pip to even remotely be in the discussion.

stevek

To expound on Ruth a little bit, I may have mentioned this before. I personally knew an "old timer" from Philly who had an impeccable character, was a high school principal for around thirty years, and was never prone to exaggeration.

He told me that he as a young kid, would go to the ball park to watch the Philadelphia A's play against the visiting Yankees. Ruth would come in on the train, and he told me that before entering the stadium, there would always be a group of kids waiting there to get his autograph. He said that he was at many games, and he never once saw Ruth not sign every single autograph for every single kid waiting there.

Want proof? I saw his autograph collection. Couple shoe boxes filled with vintage autographs. More Ruth autographs than i could count without going thru each one. You see, he was one of those many kids who Ruth signed for at the ball park.

Ruth was simply a phenomenal goodwill ambassador for the game of baseball. To me, that's worth something, if not a lot when it comes to GOAT consideration. I think Ruth would still be the GOAT without that, but throwing that in the mix, then frankly, it's really not even remotely close. Ruth clearly and unequivocally stands out among all others in team sports.

1951WheatiesPremium

@Tabe said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:
What exactly is the argument in favor of Bill Russell other than "he won a bunch of titles" since that also applies to a gazillion of his teammates?

Imagine a guy who could dominate a basketball game with defense the way Michael Jordan did with offense.

That’s Bill Russell in a nutshell.

Part of the problem for people watching today’s game is there is no defense played at all. Bill Murray played more defense in Space Jam.

To be honest, that still doesn't really make the case. And that's even conceding the rather ludicrous notion that a guy who doesn't have the ball can possibly dominate a game similar to a dominant offensive player.

For his defense to put him in the GOAT discussion, in order to overcome his absolutely pedestrian 15ppg career average, he'd have to be so far ahead defensively of absolutely everyone that it's not even funny. That wasn't the case. Instead, you have guys like Jordan & Pippen, who were elite defenders and light years ahead offensively. And nobody considers Pip to even remotely be in the discussion.

Those Celtics teams had plenty of guys who could score (Cousy, Heinsohn, Havilchek, the Jones’, etc). Again, if your looking for a modern parallel there isn’t one. Averaging 22 rebounds per game for a career is incredible and his shot blocking (which often resulted in a change of possesion, unlike most blocked shots today) also was a game changer.

I fully recognize that in the modern NBA where no defense is played whatsoever this concept can be hard to understand. I guess the best example would be how everybody’s GOAT (Jordan) won nothing against a team that played stifling defense for 5-6 years (Pistons) until they got old and the team broke apart.

Defense used to be the way to win a basketball game. Oddly enough, Jordan finally started to win championships when he started paying attention to that part of his game.

1951WheatiesPremium

@Tabe said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:
What exactly is the argument in favor of Bill Russell other than "he won a bunch of titles" since that also applies to a gazillion of his teammates?

Imagine a guy who could dominate a basketball game with defense the way Michael Jordan did with offense.

That’s Bill Russell in a nutshell.

Part of the problem for people watching today’s game is there is no defense played at all. Bill Murray played more defense in Space Jam.

To be honest, that still doesn't really make the case. And that's even conceding the rather ludicrous notion that a guy who doesn't have the ball can possibly dominate a game similar to a dominant offensive player.

For his defense to put him in the GOAT discussion, in order to overcome his absolutely pedestrian 15ppg career average, he'd have to be so far ahead defensively of absolutely everyone that it's not even funny. That wasn't the case. Instead, you have guys like Jordan & Pippen, who were elite defenders and light years ahead offensively. And nobody considers Pip to even remotely be in the discussion.

By the way, EVERY basketball player is tasked with being a defender 50% of the game, even if the chose to ignore it or devalue it. To say you can’t dominate a game as a defender shows a complete lack of understanding of the sport.

bronco2078

@hammer1 said:

@Darin said:
I just wish we could go back to the days when goat meant you choked and you're a miserable failure.
What is the new name for what goat used to mean anyway?

Goff

I don't think that Goff choked. He is a young QB in his first superbowl he just didn't get any help from his coaching staff. Its not like he threw 4 interceptions or turned over the ball. Halftime was 3 hours long and they made now adjustments at all

perkdog

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2819392-tom-brady-doesnt-like-being-called-the-goat-it-makes-me-cringe.amp.html

Tabe

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:
What exactly is the argument in favor of Bill Russell other than "he won a bunch of titles" since that also applies to a gazillion of his teammates?

Imagine a guy who could dominate a basketball game with defense the way Michael Jordan did with offense.

That’s Bill Russell in a nutshell.

Part of the problem for people watching today’s game is there is no defense played at all. Bill Murray played more defense in Space Jam.

To be honest, that still doesn't really make the case. And that's even conceding the rather ludicrous notion that a guy who doesn't have the ball can possibly dominate a game similar to a dominant offensive player.

For his defense to put him in the GOAT discussion, in order to overcome his absolutely pedestrian 15ppg career average, he'd have to be so far ahead defensively of absolutely everyone that it's not even funny. That wasn't the case. Instead, you have guys like Jordan & Pippen, who were elite defenders and light years ahead offensively. And nobody considers Pip to even remotely be in the discussion.

Those Celtics teams had plenty of guys who could score (Cousy, Heinsohn, Havilchek, the Jones’, etc). Again, if your looking for a modern parallel there isn’t one. Averaging 22 rebounds per game for a career is incredible and his shot blocking (which often resulted in a change of possesion, unlike most blocked shots today) also was a game changer.

I fully recognize that in the modern NBA where no defense is played whatsoever this concept can be hard to understand. I guess the best example would be how everybody’s GOAT (Jordan) won nothing against a team that played stifling defense for 5-6 years (Pistons) until they got old and the team broke apart.

Defense used to be the way to win a basketball game. Oddly enough, Jordan finally started to win championships when he started paying attention to that part of his game.

You do realize that teams played basically no defense at all in the 60s, right? 115, 120 points a night, no defense to be found.

22 rebounds a night sounds great until you realize that teams took waaaaaaaaaay more sites back then - and missed them. 22 rebounds then is the equivalent of about 14 or so now.

Tabe

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:
What exactly is the argument in favor of Bill Russell other than "he won a bunch of titles" since that also applies to a gazillion of his teammates?

Imagine a guy who could dominate a basketball game with defense the way Michael Jordan did with offense.

That’s Bill Russell in a nutshell.

Part of the problem for people watching today’s game is there is no defense played at all. Bill Murray played more defense in Space Jam.

To be honest, that still doesn't really make the case. And that's even conceding the rather ludicrous notion that a guy who doesn't have the ball can possibly dominate a game similar to a dominant offensive player.

For his defense to put him in the GOAT discussion, in order to overcome his absolutely pedestrian 15ppg career average, he'd have to be so far ahead defensively of absolutely everyone that it's not even funny. That wasn't the case. Instead, you have guys like Jordan & Pippen, who were elite defenders and light years ahead offensively. And nobody considers Pip to even remotely be in the discussion.

By the way, EVERY basketball player is tasked with being a defender 50% of the game, even if the chose to ignore it or devalue it. To say you can’t dominate a game as a defender shows a complete lack of understanding of the sport.

Nah. Saying somebody could dominate the game as a defender as much as MJ did offensively is what shows a lack of understanding.

1951WheatiesPremium

Cool, let’s go with your perspective over that of everyone who watched basketball for the last 60 years.

garnettstyle

No love for Mantle?

1951WheatiesPremium

@garnettstyle said:
No love for Mantle?

Plenty of - my favorite!

Still, he never pitched - let alone at a high level...