Best Strategy to get a PCGS Pedigree for Exonumia

ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 3, 2019 8:08AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I've been accumulating more top pop exonumia slabbed by ATS. It's impossible to avoid since they are, by far, the dominant TPG for exonumia right now, in sheer volume and to the point that people will cross from PCGS to ATS for their collections.

In order for PCGS to assign a pedigree to my collection, which approach is better:

  • Cross to PCGS now without a pedigree and wait till I have enough they give me one?
  • Build a top ranked registry set ATS and then cross to PCGS when they will give me a pedigree?

Initially, I was thinking of the first approach because the value of the CoinFacts listing of TrueViews overrode other considerations. However, now that CoinFacts has changed, that's less valuable to me and the pedigree is more the driving concern.

I'm torn because as much as I like TrueViews, they are less valuable to me without the CoinFacts listings, and it seems that a top pop ATS is more valuable for exonumia because, at the moment, more items and collectors are there.

Comments

  • BustDMsBustDMs Posts: 522 ✭✭✭✭

    Two, if and when it makes sense.

    Q: When does a collector become a numismatist?



    A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.



    A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hear what you're saying! I mourn the loss of the CoinFacts TrueViews as well!

    That being said, if your exonumia is truly top pop material, then those TrueViews would most certainly be displayed on CoinFacts. (It seems that the top 3 graded items are displayed for any listing in CoinFacts.) In fact, I had an item of exonumia graded and TrueView'd last week, and it is now displayed on its CoinFacts page.

    I'm planning on having all of my Libertas Americana pieces (original medals, modern "restrikes," and the tokens) submitted for the pedigree service, and will also be seeking a customized label.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 10:39AM

    I know the top 3 items are displayed in CoinFacts, but the sad reality is that while I still actively use the pop reports, cert verification and price guide, I don't visit PCGS CoinFacts any more.

    This hurts more because Civil War tokens are on the smaller side and may not photograph well in the old ATS slabs, but surprisingly may photo better in the prong slab due to more light hitting the edges.

    It seems like it would be more economical to keep them in ATS slabs now and have any raw contender pieces slabbed by ATS for the registry set. PCGS can be used for the not so high grade raw pieces that don't affect the set. This way only the raw pieces would need to be slabbed twice, once when going into the ATS registry and then second when everything is converted to PCGS. The other way, everything would need to be holdered by PCGS twice. Of course, not everything is about economics.

    I love your Libertas Americana set and can't wait to see your customized label. Good luck!

  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    I know the top 3 items are displayed in CoinFacts, but the sad reality is that while I still actively use the pop reports, cert verification and price guide, I don't visit PCGS CoinFacts any more.

    This hurts more because Civil War tokens are on the smaller side and may not photograph well in the old ATS slabs, but surprisingly may photo better in the prong slab due to more light hitting the edges.

    It seems like it would be more economical to keep them in ATS slabs now and have any raw contender pieces slabbed by ATS for the registry set. PCGS can be used for the not so high grade raw pieces that don't affect the set. This way only the raw pieces would need to be slabbed twice, once when going into the ATS registry and then second when everything is converted to PCGS. The other way, everything would need to be holdered by PCGS twice. Of course, not everything is about economics.

    I love your Libertas Americana set and can't wait to see your customized label. Good luck!

    I have to agree with you, PCGS CoinFacts is not what it used to be, and far less educational. I hope this is just a temporary situation, while PCGS deletes all of the duplicate photos resulting from re-submissions, and then all of the remaining TrueViews are back on display. I too visit CoinFacts far less often now.

    I'm glad you like my Libertas set! Between the medals and tokens, there are now 148 different entries in the overall set. It's a growing project, as I prefer to have a number of duplicates, so that I can ultimately display them with both sides available to be seen.

  • keetskeets Posts: 22,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 2:09PM

    despite all the points made in the OP I can't get past the simple fact that I don't like the NGC capsule. the result for me is that I won't use that TPG. they are especially problematic as the encapsulated coin/medal becomes smaller. with all that said, what the heck is the "Pedigree Service" and why is that important to you as a collector?? for me, such a thing is just additional information cluttering the insert.

    ** while PCGS deletes all of the duplicate photos resulting from re-submissions**
    how can PCGS have a machine which can "map" a coin surface in the grading room but nothing be done to prevent duplicate pictures??

    --- George Carlin RIP, he'd have a lot of fresh material if he was alive today!!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 3:10PM

    @keets said:
    despite all the points made in the OP I can't get past the simple fact that I don't like the NGC capsule. the result for me is that I won't use that TPG. they are especially problematic as the encapsulated coin/medal becomes smaller.

    Their prongless holders done at the request of @Broadstruck are actually better for small medals. I used to think of them as a bar of soap but I’m slowly starting to appreciate them more as they accumulate for me.

    One thing that is nice is that they don’t have the “feet” that stick out and rub against the slab sleeve bags. I hope PCGS can get rid of them in the future. No other TPG holder I’ve seen needs them.

    with all that said, what the heck is the "Pedigree Service" and why is that important to you as a collector?? for me, such a thing is just additional information cluttering the insert.

    To me, past and current ownership is part of the history of a piece. Collectors often say they wished a coin could “talk” and this is one way to do that. It’s also a reasonably common practice. I think the ownership history of exonumia is much less rich than that for coins so it’s worth investigating.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 8,777 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @HeatherBoyd , Perhaps you can up channel another thread of displeasure with the way coinfacts is these days...this change is not good.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_



    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11...



    PCGS DANSCO 7070 Modified Set
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/142105
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 5,686 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Goal of getting your set "pedigreed" may not be in your hands no matter how good your material is. It was PCGS policy, that a "set" (of 10 coins or more) must be 100% complete to be considered but they determine whether its worth a pedigree status. Unless I am missing something -exonumia has no registry sets...??

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 5:19PM

    @WaterSport said:
    The Goal of getting your set "pedigreed" may not be in your hands no matter how good your material is. It was PCGS policy, that a "set" (of 10 coins or more) must be 100% complete to be considered but they determine whether its worth a pedigree status. Unless I am missing something -exonumia has no registry sets...??

    WS

    Well, PCGS pedigreed the QDB exonumia collection with a special insert so there may be a way. If it can't be done with PCGS, that's another reason to keep them ATS. They've done pedigrees for Tanenbaum and Shevlin. A number of So-Called Dollars were also slabbed by ATS as part of the EPN collection.

  • keetskeets Posts: 22,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zoins, no offense to NGC, but they'll slap a pedigree(that is actually the wrong word, Provenance is correct) on your grandson's Chuck-e-Cheese tokens that you handed down to him.

    --- George Carlin RIP, he'd have a lot of fresh material if he was alive today!!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 5:55PM

    @keets said:
    Zoins, no offense to NGC, but they'll slap a pedigree(that is actually the wrong word, Provenance is correct) on your grandson's Chuck-e-Cheese tokens that you handed down to him.

    No offense taken by me. ATS was good enough for Newman so thanks for confirming it's a possibility there.

    By the way, both PCGS and ATS disagree with your assessment that pedigree is the wrong word. PCGS only mentions pedigree while ATS mentions both but headlines with pedigree.

  • keetskeets Posts: 22,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    they are allowed to disagree with me but provenance is a more correct term, though the point is an ongoing argument.

    --- George Carlin RIP, he'd have a lot of fresh material if he was alive today!!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 5:37PM

    @keets said:
    they are allowed to disagree with me but provenance is a more correct term, though the point is an ongoing argument.

    Are you sure they are arguing about this? It seems like it's pretty settled.

  • keetskeets Posts: 22,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it is argued by us members, has been for years.

    --- George Carlin RIP, he'd have a lot of fresh material if he was alive today!!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 5:54PM

    @keets said:
    it is argued by us members, has been for years.

    I know. I was part of those discussions over 10 years ago. TPGs didn’t participate in the forum discussions and haven’t changed their decisions. While forum members may think there is a debate, it doesn’t seem like the TPGs think there is one. Also, since I’m asking about a TPG service, it seems to make sense to use their term.

  • keetskeets Posts: 22,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    since I'm not into knowing the provenance of my collection I will digress and add that I tend to not even care about the pedigree of my dog. I am satisfied that she is my Hero. :)

    --- George Carlin RIP, he'd have a lot of fresh material if he was alive today!!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    since I'm not into knowing the provenance of my collection I will digress and add that I tend to not even care about the pedigree of my dog. I am satisfied that she is my Hero. :)

    No worries. It’s not for everyone. I happen to be fascinated by it.

    Dogs are awesome aren’t they?

  • keetskeets Posts: 22,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    yes, they are.

    we have two, a Lab mix that we "rescued" from the Humane Society and a Jack Russell that we took from a family who could no longer keep him. I have a full life and pretty big family, but there'd be a hole in it without our dogs.

    --- George Carlin RIP, he'd have a lot of fresh material if he was alive today!!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great ways to add two members of the family!

  • rickoricko Posts: 70,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will add my agreement about dogs and family. They are a great addition to a family and quickly become an integral part. The only creature that loves you more than themselves. Cheers, RickO

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 29,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2019 6:20AM

    A Bowers & Newman pedigree since both spent like almost 70 to 80 years collecting/selling exonumia carries far more weight than any modern collector.

    Personally I wouldn't want a pedigree from any "Joe Smoe" on label even if it helps with tracing provenance.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2019 6:41AM

    @Broadstruck said:
    A Bowers & Newman pedigree since both spent like almost 70 to 80 years collecting/selling exonumia carries far more weight than any modern collector.

    Different people have different priorities and assign different weights. In one case, I have 2 specimens of a So-Called Dollar, a top pop 1/0 with no pedigree but my own and a Newman which is in a Details holder with the fancy EPN insert. I give my top pop specimen much more weight than my Newman specimen which I got just for fun :)

    Personally I wouldn't want a pedigree from any "Joe Smoe" on label even if it helps with tracing provenance.

    Don't worry, the pedigree isn't intended for you. I'm not looking to sell so you don't have to worry about ending up with one of these. And if you do, it's easy enough for the TPG to remove it for you. Personally, I'd even like to have prior collectors on the insert.

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