The classic commems are a sea of red again. Oh, the humanity.
bolivarshagnasty
Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭✭✭
Many of the common Oregons are at 175 for an MS63, and 275 for an MS66! We have apparently NOT hit bottom.
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Many of the common Oregons are at 175 for an MS63, and 275 for an MS66! We have apparently NOT hit bottom.
Comments
I have been suffering with these for decades. They were hot as a rocket when I got into them and they tanked after I spent thousands. The story of my life.
Cheers
Bob
It sounds like they are colder than today's outside temperature with wind chill.
Watching this market for most of my life, it has never ceased to amaze me.
I always wonder what would happen if just a thousand collectors woke up tomorrow and decided to put together a set.
🤗 Time to Partay yet ?
When a nice MS65 ( or Better ) classic Hawaiian can be had for much less , someone wake me up, please.
I really want one of those but I'm not in a mood to ride it DOWN the express elevator to the Morgue area
The classic commemorative's are a great series... and yes, prices are attractive.... This is a good market for true collectors.... not so much for those who think coins are an investment or flippers...I still think there may be further price erosion.. and if one stays away from tarnished pieces, one could do very well. Cheers, RickO
I'll watch out for you, as I too would like one, the only coin without a - minus- sign.
I look at them as a buying opportunity as they are now priced like tokens.
Pinnacle just had a commem I sold in 1992 now for $1500 less.
Hate to say, but given that I have a recent interest in classic commems I am rather glad the prices are dipping. I never owned anything other than the Columbians I bought for melt years ago and then I got interested in the more attractive examples a couple of years ago.
Even some of the toned examples seem in the crapper... albeit 2 or 3X or so the non toned.
I had a nice San Diego example that should have been cracked and would have upgraded.
Didn't see the point and seemed like a shame to bust it from it's OGH
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Sold my type set years ago before they started tanking. Still kicking myself for not keeping the Hi. I knew better then, but let it go with the rest. Always keep the keys. Cannot say I did not know better, I did.
Classic commems were the first series I dabbled in after getting back into the numismatic hobby as an adult around 2010-2011. As a boy in the 80's I became familiar with them (only in pictures!!) via the Redbook. Listed prices were steep (especially to a kid) and I do remember thinking some day I would like to own some of these. And so then some 20+ years on from my youth it started!
For type, I only own 18 of 50, all CAC (two gold) and a good bunch of them in OGH's, where they remain. My memory of them from those first couple of years (2010-2012/2013) was that there was a lot of nice 65 and 66 coins CAC'ed available. Perhaps it is just my imagination, as I don't cruise every Heritage auction for them anymore, but my impression now is that there are fewer and fewer of those 65 and 66 nice coins being auctioned and now these coins have largely graduated into 67 or 67+ holders and these are the coins being offered in the marketplace. It has kind of turned me off. Anybody else notice this or share my viewpoint? I would happily add to my collection if nice 65 and 66 CAC coins were more commonly offered, but it seems that most of the remaining 65's and 66's don't measure up to what was available just 5-10 years ago. Maybe it is my imagination as I'm not very active in these and my focus drifted over to mostly World coins post 2012/2013.
For sure, I'm down likely ~50% on these, and while that isn't ideal, it doesn't represent a lot of money. I really like the coins I acquired back then, and as a collector that is what is most important to me. I'm confident I could get a grade bump on some of the coins, but for now, I like to enjoy them just as they are.
Here is a really attractive (to my eye) PCGS MS66 CAC purchased in October 2012 --
Jeff
I have almost pulled the trigger on some nice PC 65 Hawaiians. Those don't seem to still be dropping much, but I am gun shy.
Low supply, but even lower demand (for whatever reason). A real head scratcher.
IMO, Classics Commems are not a good place to try and make any real $$$. Just enjoy them for what they are. Many are so beautiful.
Dave
You could do better if Classic Commems sold at auction more but many of them are offered at fixed prices above market prices, making it more challenging.
When you see a lot of fixed price items, try to get an idea of actual market rates by looking at past auction history.
A pop-top Grant (no star) half in 67+ saw a change from $12,000 to $8,000. Population 9.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
Same coin or different?
Wow, I'm assuming that is just price guide data, not an actual transaction data point. Either way, 33% is one pretty steep drop in just one fell swoop!!
Jeff
It's the most recent update in the PCGS price guide. I would have to guess it's based on a reported sale somewhere, but who knows.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
I suggest, to add life to Classic Commemoratives, an Advanced 50 coin Registry Set be added with the composition weighting expanded to include all 144 coins while retaining the 50 coin set concept. That way, if all other coins are the same, a set with a Grant Star would be higher ranked than a set containing the Grant without the Star.
It is understandable that PCGS originally decided not to utilize all 144 weights in the 50 coin commemorative type set to encourage and not overwhelm collectors starting a set on the Set Registry. The cost difference between an Arkansas type coin and a 1939 Arkansas is substantial. Once a set is well on it's way to be completed or has been completed, participants who might hesitate to start accumulating a large number of low value coins in order to complete a full 144 date and mintmark set might be encouraged to graduate to an Advanced type set.
Just hang on, only a matter of time until DC remints some cleaned Oregons into 1927 Hawaiians, right?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Greysheet prices haven't changed. Perhaps PCGS price guide was just waaaaay behind the market
Take the Roanoke issue illustrated by the nice piece posted above. Incredibly common, 4,990 graded at PCGS alone from 63 to 66+. Over 400 more in the 67 grades. Where is the demand for that? What should the issue be worth in 65/65+ with a pop of 2,426 and 1,800 higher? Is $75 right? What about the multi year issues, people like the Oregon design, but how many are available for this type across all those years?
A 1954 MS 67 red Lincoln cent brought $31,200 at FUN.
If I'm spending that kind of money, I would much rather buy any MS 67 classic commemorative at today's prices.
That's just me....
At least I sold my complete 50 piece registry set 2 years ago. And at least I am starting another set when prices are as low as they are right now.
I still cant draw myself from this series. There's just too much beauty and history.
It's a great time to SELECTIVELY buy nicely toned, original pieces, at low prices.
Really choice coins like these below are not so easy to find, and they still command premiums over white coins.
Monsters are an irrational market for the brave of heart, similar to monster-toned Morgans.
Commems and Early Type
Not saying I want to make a killing, but I certainly don't want to lose my ass either.
Abi gezunt
Bob
@Outhall... You are correct... I was referring mainly to those who will collect for the sake of having them and not consider reselling.... Someone like me... Cheers, RickO
If you have that kind of scratch hanging around in your coin budget, you're not sweating the classic commem market.
Cheers
Bob
Has to be close to rock bottom on these! Hard to understand the complete lack of interest.
(Even though they dont interest me in the slightest. Hmm, perhaps I have my answer)
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I bought a few about 5 years ago...Glad I lost interest. Although I am still looking for nice Isabellas, just not too many out there.
I really like your "favorite 10" provided by the link.
If I didn't have my hands full on my own set, I'd like to grab a couple of those.
My Saint Set
Agree that toners still seem to perform very well.
Are those realized auction prices?
I kind of expect them to go lower aside from attractive toners and top pops. I think the fixed listing prices are keeping them higher than they would be at market rates.
Thanks, Would love to own those 67 and 68 colorful toners but the price is too steep for me.
Zoins, I assume they base the movement up or down on realized auction prices as well as ebay sales. There have been several threads on it lately, but I'm convinced the dreck (common examples with little or no eye appeal) being sold at auctions is bringing down the prices on eye appealing ones as well. No one buying dreck, so the entire market gets pulled down because the price guides don't reflect quality.
Sea of red based on what? CDN? CPG? TPG MV adjustment?
What is the relevance of this post if you don’t provide basis?
Classic commems slid months ago in the CDN. My bids / offers are based on CDN bid. TPG Price is their perception of retail. For retail based on CDN refer to CPG. Auction prices can widely but I look at these too.
TPG MV Adjustment. The sea of red I was referring to was the PCGS price guide. When prices are adjusted up they are green in color, and when going down they are red in color. They dumb it down for us Collectors.
Ok thanks makes sense. The 37D Oregon in 66 took a hit to $275 (pcgs).
the next few coin shows ill be looking for some more. I do like the Oregon, Texas, CT and a few others. fwiw
Yes these coins looking like more of bargain - addicted to them. Like those too.
As a boy of 9 back in 1964 I was amazed at the neat half dollars at the end of my dad's Redbook. Back then they seemed very expensive and I thought I would never get an opportunity to own such a set of coins. I had to wait until 1995 when I had some extra money too spend on such coins. It took me a few years to complete since I mainly used ads in Coinworld and visits to coin shows in my area. It was complete by 1999 and was submitted to the PCGS Registry. Since there was no web-based Registry, every set that was to participate was mailed to PCGS with raw, crossover, or PCGS coins included. I mailed all 50 of my coins, about 12 NGC, the rest were PCGS, for representation in the Registry. PCGS crossed-over all NGC coins, reholdered and pedigreed the entire set, all for free. Back then the Registry was published in booklet form only and was mailed to the participants yearly. I still have some of the booklets from 1999-2001 when my set was ranked #2, now it usually ranges from #23 to #28 depending on whose in or out.
I still have the set, although most of the coins have been upgraded. It got to a point around 2006 the prices of Classic Commems were rather lofty and it was expensive to upgrade a better than gem set. Now the prices have cascades below the 1996 prices when I bought many of these coins. I recently upgraded my Sesquicentennial half to MS65. Back in 1996 an MS65 was $5000 and way out of my price range and very hard to find one that is attractive. This one suited my and is pictured below.
It might be a good time to get that MS65 Lafayette or consider some of the coins for upgrade.
Overland Trail Collection Showcase
Dahlonega Type Set-2008 PCGS Best Exhibited Set
Interesting thread. I had about a dozen classic commems way prior to third party grading came about. Some common like the Monroe and Pilgrim, others no so common like Spanish Trail and Isabella. Sometimes I wish I still had them today.
I wonder if the drop in prices and apparent lack of interest in the series could be related to the plethora pf modern commems being cranked out by the mint. Who can, or wants to keep up?
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Soooooo many good thoughts above.
I put together a 50-pc. from 2008 to 2014 or so . . . and was very happy to play the Registry game (as a common teacher . . . I got to #20 -- no WAY was I going to dump thousands more in order to go up one position !!!) History, the search, the thrill . . .oh yes!
I started to watch the demise. Could not imagine how coins with (in some cases) 3000-10,000 mintages could be so cheap (???) . . . but I eventually came around. The law of supply and demand.
I was lucky. I took my set to a show in the northwest . . .ran into an ex-PCGS grader (well known) who looked at my selection and cherry-picked about half the set for a decent price. I was well aware of what was happening (he was going to rip them for the upgrades . . . and in many cases . . . HE had originally graded them) , but also happy that I had an 'eye' for the 'better' coins.
I still love them for all the right reasons . . . . but have other collecting strategies now.
Drunner
Even though this series is possibly the MOST worthy collectible US series, the designs are historic and in some cases artistically notable.
Both of which elements require.... study.
And nowadays that isn't a popular pastime.
No one researches the subjects they commemorate.
Thus... blah.
That is a nice sesqui and and a good story
And I just paid way way way too much money for a toned Oregon.........
Best, SH
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I remember it from your FUN images thread!! What an awesome coin. To the points I made in my post in this thread, it is a miracle that coin was (still) in a 65 holder.
Jeff
Putting an LOL at the end of a sarcastic comment doesn't necessarily make it better. Not very polite to tell anyone to shut up.
I believe most people will never collect what they could not get "cheap", or at least "see" a relative collecting the item, when they were younger, be it coins from change, cars in high school, toys at Christmas, a weapon they had in the military, etc.
Effectively, the commemoratives have never circulated in most people's lifetimes.
I was just thinking the same thing. I think classic commems are more like exonumia than business issue coins.