2019 Native American $1 Coins (19N[A-F])

BackroadJunkie · January 31, 2019 3:00AM

I don't normally start threads about yearly releases, but I thought this year's reverse is hilarious. The Astronaut grabbing the edge of the coin like some modern day Kilroy was a great touch...

Like always,there will be six products. (There will actually be seven. See the end of this post.)

25 coin roll, Philadelphia (19NA)
25 coin roll, Denver (19NB)
25 coin rolls are $32,95

250 coin box, Philadelphia (19NC)
250 coin box, Denver (19ND)
250 coin boxes are $275.95.

100 coin bag, Philadelphia (19NE)
100 coin bag, Denver (19NF)
100 coin bags are $111.95.

Reverse:

And of course, Sac and Jean Baptiste adorn the obverse:

And I still don't like edge lettering.

More interesting (by far) will be the Native American $1 2019 Coin & Currency Set (19NR) to be released this summer. This set has been on an two year hiatus with the Mint's release of special finish dollars in the Enhanced and Reverse Proof sets.

Namvet69 · January 31, 2019 3:48AM

Okay, we need a scientist to tell us what the formula is about. Is it propulsion? Peace Roy

Hemispherical · January 31, 2019 5:38AM

@BackroadJunkie said:

More interesting (by far) will be the Native American $1 2019 Coin & Currency Set (19NR) to be released this summer. This set has been on an two year hiatus with the Mint's release of special finish dollars in the Enhanced and Reverse Proof sets.

I agree, this is interesting, the currency part. Wonder what it will be? An engraved print of the silver certificate with Chief Running Antelope?

ECHOES · January 31, 2019 7:51AM

@BackroadJunkie ,
I know I have said this before, thanks so much for your interest in the Mint and upcoming products, these by far are my favorite threads.

ricko · February 1, 2019 8:35AM

That is an interesting reverse... and the astronaut does look weird positioned that way. Cheers, RickO

JBK · February 1, 2019 9:22AM

The astronaut looks like he is about to fall into the abyss.

BigA · February 1, 2019 1:12PM

Hanging on for dear life....waiting for rescue

koynekwest · February 1, 2019 10:38PM

Let's restore the DATE to the obverse face of the coin. It looks ridiculous without a DATE.

Onastone · February 2, 2019 4:36AM

Reeded edges are best. What is she using for this formula?? an abacus??? that's not a calculator...perhaps it's a slide ruler...

Hemispherical · February 2, 2019 5:42AM

The “who” on the reverse:

The upside down astronaut is to represent Native American’s in space gazing down on Earth.

And who was the first Native American? John Harrington. http://spacetoday.org/Astronauts/NativeAmerican.html

From Collectors Space:
“The reverse, or tails design, prominently features Mary Golda Ross, the first known Native American woman to become an engineer. Ross' work for Lockheed Martin helped to advance the Agena rocket upper stage that NASA used for rendezvous and docking trials during the Gemini program. The mid-1960s tests were crucial to landing Apollo astronauts on the moon and later were applied to assembling the International Space Station.”

http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-121718a-usmint-american-indians-space-coin.html

And...

“In 1952, Ross was selected to serve as one of the founding 40 members of the top-secret Skunk Works team. She was the sole female engineer and only employee of Native American heritage. She noted: ‘With such a small group, you had to do everything. Aerodynamics. Structures… I was on the ground floor at Lockheed Missiles and Space, and I couldn’t think of a more ideal situation.’”
https://news.engin.umich.edu/2017/06/remembering-mary-golda-ross/

The equation on the reverse appears to be a simplified equation to calculate... have fun! 🤯

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronautics-and-astronautics/16-07-dynamics-fall-2009/lecture-notes/MIT16_07F09_Lec17.pdf

jabba · February 2, 2019 7:15AM

That reverse is really cool I’m getting some!

DBSTrader2 · February 2, 2019 8:19AM

DEFINITELY the coolest reverse design so far of the series - - I'll need to get me some. I love the astronaut hanging on to the inner ring, lest he fly off into space, and Mary Ross is definitely using a slide-rule. They were just being phased-out when I went to school, in favor of the Texas Instruments scientific calculators. I never learned to use one myself...... And my guess is maybe the formula is for "escape-velocity" from Earth's gravity?

And, yes, please bring back the date & mint-mark onto the obverse, and stop playing these not-so-cute edge mind-games with us! HORRIBLE for folder/album displays!!

In the meantime, once they go on sale, is anyone buying rolls/bags to break-up for searches or folders/albums that might be able to spare 3 or 4 as a sale/trade?

- Dave

Mdcoincollector2003 · February 2, 2019 8:35AM

I love the reverse, this is probably my favorite modern series because there is only one new design a year and they are usually attractive however I dislike the date and mintmark on the edge.

Hydrant · February 2, 2019 9:46AM

Why is the "astronaut?" flipping the bird? I mean, like, what's with the middle finger on the right hand? Definitely not appropriate.

LanLord · February 2, 2019 9:49AM

@Hydrant said:
Why is the "astronaut?" flipping the bird? I mean, like, what's with the middle finger on the right hand? Definitely not appropriate.

stole my answer man!

BackroadJunkie · February 13, 2019 1:10AM

@Hydrant said:
Why is the "astronaut?" flipping the bird? I mean, like, what's with the middle finger on the right hand? Definitely not appropriate.

Good thing these come in Uncirculated sets, otherwise I'd have to buy a roll.

Anyway, bumping this thread since they go on sale today, and there was actually interest in the coin...

BigA · February 13, 2019 5:20AM

@Hydrant said:
Why is the "astronaut?" flipping the bird? I mean, like, what's with the middle finger on the right hand? Definitely not appropriate.

Poor placement of the hand right below the "I" in America

TwoSides2aCoin · February 13, 2019 6:26AM

They've come a long way.... and they've got a long way to go.

DBSTrader2 · March 4, 2019 2:18PM

Anyone buy/crack-open any rolls/bags for submission that wouldn't mind trading a few?

planetsteve · March 4, 2019 3:59PM

I’ve put in three different orders for one bag of each mint. I’ve sorted through 300 of the 600 so far. P mint appear frosty in comparison to D mint, but with more contact marks.

Is PCGS doing First Strike on these? These dollars appear absent from the FS deadline list.

BryceM · March 4, 2019 4:15PM

Cool design, but I’ll just try to collect one from circulation.

Akbeez · March 4, 2019 4:34PM

Thanks for the reminder. I'm still a fan of Sackie but the turn off for me was edge lettering.

If everyone responds to the Mint surveys and recommend obverse lettering, maybe we can get this changed!

BTW, last I saw, the 2017 Sac's were quite low mintage. 2018 is yet to see.

Onastone · March 4, 2019 4:39PM

@Akbeez said:

BTW, last I saw, the 2017 Sac's were quite low mintage. 2018 is yet to see.

I asked this before, but the question was buried in the tidal wave of comments. Does anybody know how long this series will last? Could we see an ending with the onset of the Innobucks?

Hemispherical · March 4, 2019 4:41PM

@planetsteve said:
I’ve put in three different orders for one bag of each mint. I’ve sorted through 300 of the 600 so far. P mint appear frosty in comparison to D mint, but with more contact marks.

Is PCGS doing First Strike on these? These dollars appear absent from the FS deadline list.

Yes, AI coins are eligible for FS. Coin Facts has the list of the current grades.

PF FS:
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/2018-s-1-american-innovation-series-washington-signed-1st-patent-first-strike-dc/690953

MS FS:
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/2018-p-1-american-innovation-series-position-washington-signed-1st-patent-fs/691653

I do not see the cutoff listed, either, but the standard is 30 days after release date... released on 14 Dec 18.

Edit to add: Oops... posted AI instead of NA/Sac. Sorry.

planetsteve · March 4, 2019 5:07PM

@BryceM said:
Cool design, but I’ll just try to collect one from circulation.

Well, I’m tossing them in the tip jar of the coffee shop across the street...

Hemispherical · March 4, 2019 5:25PM

@Onastone said:

@Akbeez said:

BTW, last I saw, the 2017 Sac's were quite low mintage. 2018 is yet to see.

I asked this before, but the question was buried in the tidal wave of comments. Does anybody know how long this series will last? Could we see an ending with the onset of the Innobucks?

AI will be on-going for 14 years. At a rate of four per year, alphabetically, 50 States + DC + Territories (Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, the US Virgin Islands, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands). 2019 will be the first year starting with Alabama. 2018 was the Intro AI.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/6025/text?format=txt

Edit to add: Double Oops... posted AI instead of NA/Sac. Sorry. Again.

planetsteve · March 4, 2019 5:42PM

Note the time and date stamp at the end of the box. I’m guessing that’s the time of packaging; I wonder if that could correspond to the date of minting.

Goldminers · March 4, 2019 7:07PM

@Namvet69 said:
Okay, we need a scientist to tell us what the formula is about. Is it propulsion? Peace Roy

A few highlights from Wiki that I believe are worth incredible respect, and she is easily deserving of being on the coin:

Mary G.Ross was hired as a mathematician by Lockheed in 1942. While there she began working on the effects of pressure on the Lockheed P-38 Lightning. The P-38 was one of the fastest airplanes designed at the time: it was the first military airplane to fly faster than 400 mph (640 km/h) in level flight. Ross helped to solve numerous design issues involved with high speed flight and issues of aeroelasticity.

In 1952, she joined Lockheed's Advanced Development Program at the then-secret Skunk Works, where she worked on "preliminary design concepts for interplanetary space travel, manned and unmanned earth-orbiting flights, the earliest studies of orbiting satellites for both defense and civilian purposes." She worked on the Agena rocket project, and on preliminary design concepts for flyby missions to Venus and Mars.

Most of the theories and papers that emerged from the group, including those by Ross, are still classified. As she told her alma mater's newspaper in the 1990s, "We were taking the theoretical and making it real." One of Ross' seminal roles was as one of the authors of the NASA Planetary Flight Handbook Vol. III, about space travel to Mars and Venus.

Ross became a senior advanced systems staff engineer by the late 1960s, working on the Polaris reentry vehicle, Poseidon and Trident missiles!

BackroadJunkie · March 4, 2019 10:50PM

@Onastone said:

@Akbeez said:

BTW, last I saw, the 2017 Sac's were quite low mintage. 2018 is yet to see.

I asked this before, but the question was buried in the tidal wave of comments. Does anybody know how long this series will last? Could we see an ending with the onset of the Innobucks?

There is no sunset clause on Sacabucks. They're standard coinage (even if they are NCLT) like the Kennedy, Washington, Roosevelt, Jefferson and Lincoln.

They're not going away.

Onastone · March 5, 2019 4:47AM

@BackroadJunkie said:

They're not going away.

Thanks. But there is a possibility that they could just peter out due to lack of sales? Just wondering because how many dollar coins do we really need to have?

Hemispherical · March 5, 2019 5:36AM

@Onastone said:

@BackroadJunkie said:

They're not going away.

Thanks. But there is a possibility that they could just peter out due to lack of sales? Just wondering because how many dollar coins do we really need to have?

One for each politician that proposes and passes a $1 coin bill.

BackroadJunkie · March 5, 2019 7:33AM

@Onastone said:

@BackroadJunkie said:

They're not going away.

Thanks. But there is a possibility that they could just peter out due to lack of sales? Just wondering because how many dollar coins do we really need to have?

If lack of sales was a criteria, they would have gone away in say, 2012. Same with the Kennedy. The law:

31 U.S. Code § 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.

and

(b) ...The dollar coin shall be golden in color, have a distinctive edge, have tactile and visual features that make the denomination of the coin readily discernible, be minted and fabricated in the United States, and have similar metallic, anti-counterfeiting properties as United States coinage in circulation on the date of enactment of the United States $1 Coin Act of 1997....

The coin is mandated by law. (And there are numerous references to the 'so-called “Sacagawea design”'.) Congress would have to change the law to finally bury the thing, and that would outrage any Native American or the more (cough) sensitive among the children today...

bestday · March 5, 2019 9:14AM

nice reverse ...going to buy

DBSTrader2 · March 5, 2019 10:30AM

sorry.... no AI's for me as long as there is no plan for general circulation............

planetsteve · March 5, 2019 10:32AM

“AI”? What’s that? 🤔

DBSTrader2 · March 5, 2019 12:51PM

The next series: "American Innovations"

Hemispherical · March 5, 2019 2:44PM

@planetsteve said:
“AI”? What’s that? 🤔

American Innovation coins:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1009945/2018-american-innovation-1-coin-intro-coin-18ga-18gra-18gre-18gba-18gbe/p1

Onastone · March 5, 2019 4:26PM

@DBSTrader2 said:
The next series: "American Innovations"

Some of us are already calling them Innobucks.

And seeing your post, I realized even though our "disagree" button has been removed, we still have access to sad or angry faces!!!!!!

jmski52 · March 5, 2019 4:55PM

I find it interesting that the Brass/Manganese small dollars are about the same size as Large Cents and tone up to a similar color.

Considering inflation, they have about the same purchasing power as a Large Cent did 200 years ago so I am wondering if they will be regarded in the same way by collectors in about 200 years.

planetsteve · March 5, 2019 6:19PM

How is it established which dollar coins are circulating and which aren’t? As I recall, the Prezzies started out as circulating and eventually got moved to non-circulating. I recall VP Biden remarked on the change at some point.

Do the Sacs circulate? And are we still calling them Sacs, or did they officially change to Native American dollars when the reverses started changing?

Finally, the AI series (thanks for explanation) is here by an act of Congress, but still not supposed to circulate? Really?

BackroadJunkie · March 5, 2019 11:17PM

@planetsteve said:
How is it established which dollar coins are circulating and which aren’t? As I recall, the Prezzies started out as circulating and eventually got moved to non-circulating. I recall VP Biden remarked on the change at some point.

Do the Sacs circulate? And are we still calling them Sacs, or did they officially change to Native American dollars when the reverses started changing?

Brassbucks (both prezibucks and sacabucks) went NCLT in 2011/2012. Kennedy's essentially went NCLT in 2002.

Finally, the AI series (thanks for explanation) is here by an act of Congress, but still not supposed to circulate? Really?

Yep. Read the thread:

2018 American Innovation $1 Coin (Intro coin) (18GA, 18GRA, 18GRE, 18GBA, 18GBE)

Note the first Innobuck should be released by the end of this month. The product schedule has been updated through June,and all Innobuck releases are still TBD...

Edit cuz I kant spel...

Goldminers · March 6, 2019 8:01AM

I have been buying $100 bags (for $112 or so) of some of the Native American designs I like, and putting them into circulation mostly just for fun.

planetsteve · March 6, 2019 9:52AM

But... but what about all the good people in Ecuador and Latin America and all the places that actually circulate American dollar coins? What about them? Are they having to get by with grungy, 20-year-old Sacabucks?

BackroadJunkie · March 6, 2019 11:38AM

Okay, did a little research (which is what you do when waiting in a waiting room)...

@BackroadJunkie said:

@planetsteve said:
How is it established which dollar coins are circulating and which aren’t? As I recall, the Prezzies started out as circulating and eventually got moved to non-circulating. I recall VP Biden remarked on the change at some point.

Do the Sacs circulate? And are we still calling them Sacs, or did they officially change to Native American dollars when the reverses started changing?

They technically became NaAmbucks (lol) when the reverses started changing, but it was more of a PC move since it started representing Native American achievements. Since Sac and Jean Batiste still adorn the obverse, however, they're still Sacabucks to me, and to a lot of coin sites. (Beside, Sacabuck has a better ring to it than a NaAmbuck... )

Brassbucks (both prezibucks and sacabucks) went NCLT in 2011/2012. Kennedy's essentially went NCLT in 2002.

I found the anomaly. The Sacabucks went sorta NCLT in around 2002 as well, when mintage's dropped from 100M to around 3M. HOWEVER. the legislation for the Presibucks required that not only did the Sacabucks (cited in the law as the "so-called ‘Sacagawea-design’ $1 coins") continue to be struck, but the Mint had to strike enough to make up at least 33% of the total presidential dollar coin production per year.

‘‘(ii) CIRCULATION QUANTITY.—Beginning January1, 2007, and ending upon the termination of the program under paragraph (8), the Secretary annually shall mint and issue such ‘Sacagawea-design’ $1 coins for circulation in quantities of no less than 1⁄3 of the total $1 coins minted and issued under this subsection.’’.

So that forced the mintage of some 40-50M Sacabucks per year from 2009-2011, before someone in WDC with half-a-brain put a stop to it.

@planetsteve said:
But... but what about all the good people in Ecuador and Latin America and all the places that actually circulate American dollar coins? What about them? Are they having to get by with grungy, 20-year-old Sacabucks?

There are several BILLION $1 coins in storage. I'm sure those down South will find them plentiful. 'Course, they might wonder who the hell are some of the people on the coins, but hey...

shorecoll · March 6, 2019 2:03PM

I haven't been in a Fed vault in a few years, but imagine the biggest Walmart you've ever seen stacked floor to ceiling with prezzy bucks. All 12 Fed Banks had that issue, and if it's been solved I don't know how (Ecuador, etc. couldn't use that many, could they?). I do remember with SBAs they had to rent vault space from the USPS to house all the coins nobody wanted.

Hemispherical · March 7, 2019 7:09AM

@BackroadJunkie said:
More interesting (by far) will be the Native American $1 2019 Coin & Currency Set (19NR) to be released this summer. This set has been on an two year hiatus with the Mint's release of special finish dollars in the Enhanced and Reverse Proof sets.

For those who cannot wait for the NA 2019 Coin and Currency set you can make your own. Get a NA/Sac coin and the 2017 $1 50-note sheets and cut it up.

“This product features the largest uncut currency sheet available for the $1 note. The Series 2017 $1 50–Note Uncut Currency Sheet bears the signatures of Secretary of the Treasury Steven Mnuchin and Treasurer of the United States Jovita Carranza. An informational folder describing the design of the $1 note is included.”

https://catalog.usmint.gov/1-50-note-sheet-B9575.html?cgid=uncut-currency#start=1

2019 Native American $1 Coins (19N[A-F])

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