Counterfeit Quarters Found in Circulation in New York City

philographer

Another thread on “have you ever knowlingly spent counterfeit money” reminded me of two fake quarters I found in circulation and tucked away.

I found these in the coin return slot of the coin counting machines at TD Bank on the Upper East side of Manhattan...but found them about a year apart. (This was 2-3 years ago as the bank removed these machines after a class action lawsuit claimed they did not count change correctly.) Considering I found these on two separate occasions, I believe there are many more in circulation—until they get to a coin counting machine, of course!

Both are 1982-D. Note lack of a reeded edge. They are metal, so I don’t think they’re from a children’s play set. Any thoughts to origin?

OldEastside

Interesting

Steve

Bigpoppas

Im guessing from something like a keychain with a ring around them 🤔🤔

thefinn

CHINA!

SaorAlba

Wonder when they were made, and where in China they were made.

CaptHenway

Have not seen these counterfeits.

topstuf

I like the skinny eagle. He looks alert.

jabba

That’s interesting If it’s like the $100 then there will be way more out there

Intueor

Be surprised if they were made in China. Why would you spend the cost of shipping thousands of counterfeit quarters when you could post a hundred "rare" counterfeit Morgans by air freight and make thousands? These look like "home-grown fakes" made in someone's basement. Casting reeding is tough. I also think the choice of date & mint is interesting. High grade 1982-D quarters command a significant premium. These look like culls at an earnest attempt to make a "perfect" reproduction. Although, at $3000.00 a clip for an MS67+, it may be worth the effort for the eastern bandits.

philographer

Couple additional photos for those interested:

amwldcoin

LOL E MURIBUS UNUM

Sweetpie

Is that the national bird (Turkey) that Ben Franklin proposed??

Zoins

Could be interesting for contemporary counterfeit collectors!

AlexinPA

Interesting but I have to agree with @intueor. Who would be dumb enough to counterfeit a US quarter? Probably some home cooked toy.

numbersman

What's the world coming to!

BackroadJunkie

If you peel off the outside, is there chocolate inside?

djm

Mostly like came from a fake 1982 Mint or Souvenir Set made to deceive.

johnny9434

surely fakes & its the first I heard of it

Edthelorax

When did Henning get out?

Koinicker

I've documented these, but it has been difficult to pin down when they may have been made, or where. I only heard about them about 5 years ago, but they may certainly have been made as early as the 1980s. And until now I had been debating whether to call these 'toy money' given the plain edge and hand-made die appearance, or circulating contemporary counterfeits. This thread, and your information about finding them in circulation, has convinced me that these counterfeits were in fact made for circulation.

There is a different counterfeit Washington Quarter dated 1987, with a reeded edge; and apparently around 2000 someone out on the east coast counterfeited one of the Statehood quarters.

You should note that these are illegal to own without the word 'COPY' stamped on them pursuant to U.S. counterfeiting laws, especially the Hobby Protection Act. That said, it would be a shame to ruin them as such, but I would caution against advertising these much more.

thisistheshow

@djm said:
Mostly like came from a fake 1982 Mint or Souvenir Set made to deceive.

Interesting theory.

Leroy

Pretty smart actually, nobody pays attention to quarters or even $1 bills.

davewesen

is weight and diameter accurate? could it work in vending machine? any idea why it was kicked out of bank counter?

Edthelorax

I really don't understand why anyone would bother making fake quarters. You can buy as many counterfeit rare coins from China as you want on any web based retailer. Amazon, Etsy, Alibaba, Ebay, and sell them on Ebay with zero repercussions and massive profits. The FTC, Secret Service, FBI, Ebay, US mint, US Treasury, ANA, all do not care at all about counterfeit coins. If they did, we would see something done by one of these groups. I can find 20+ counterfeits in under an hour easy. Has anyone heard of a US seller of these prosecuted in any manner in thee last 5 years?

Even when the evidence is crystal clear, the worst thing that I have ever seen happen is Ebay makes the violator open a new account to sell under.

The above named have facilitated or aided in violating the The Collectible Coin Protection Act either by allowing continued selling by known violators or through inaction enforcing the law. It makes me sick to my stomach thinking about how many people have been defrauded, ripped-off, or stolen from without anyone caring with the exception of a small group of collectors that actually care about our hobby. It is a sad situation to say the least.

Ed

CaptHenway

My guess is that it was made to pass in vending machines, parking meters, etc. Sell them for $6 a roll and you make money and the user makes 10 cents a coin.

If so they are probably from the mid-1980's, but again that is just a guess.

Back in the 70's a large quantity of quarter-sized blank copper slugs with reeded edges appeared in circulation on the upper East Coast. The speculation at the time was that they were slugs made to use in vending machines. Further speculation was that the Mafia was distributing them, but some people countered that by pointing out that a lot of the cigarette machines back then were owned by the Mafia.

Cameonut

Why? In China, a quarter is big money.

dcarr

@Koinicker said:
You should note that these are illegal to own without the word 'COPY' stamped on them pursuant to U.S. counterfeiting laws, especially the Hobby Protection Act. That said, it would be a shame to ruin them as such, but I would caution against advertising these much more.

I don't think they are illegal to simply OWN.

dcarr

If they were made in China, I wonder if they were initially made to be part of the "mutilated coin redemption scam" ?:
coinsblog.ws/2016/12/what-is-the-mint-doing-with-the-mutilated-coin-redemption-program.html

BJandTundra

@Cameonut said:
Why? In China, a quarter is big money.

That is why we know they are counterfeit. The quarters are about 3mm too big.

PerryHall

Since they were found in NYC, it's possible a tourist brought them here from some foreign country such as China.

philographer

@Koinicker said:
I've documented these, but it has been difficult to pin down when they may have been made, or where. I only heard about them about 5 years ago, but they may certainly have been made as early as the 1980s. And until now I had been debating whether to call these 'toy money' given the plain edge and hand-made die appearance, or circulating contemporary counterfeits. This thread, and your information about finding them in circulation, has convinced me that these counterfeits were in fact made for circulation.

There is a different counterfeit Washington Quarter dated 1987, with a reeded edge; and apparently around 2000 someone out on the east coast counterfeited one of the Statehood quarters.

You should note that these are illegal to own without the word 'COPY' stamped on them pursuant to U.S. counterfeiting laws, especially the Hobby Protection Act. That said, it would be a shame to ruin them as such, but I would caution against advertising these much more.

Thanks Koinicker.

1. When you say you’ve documented these...in what cities have they been discovered and how many examples are known? Are counterfeit collectors including these in their collections?

2. I’m sure they are illegal to manufacture, sell in quantity for use in commerce, or knowingly pass to merchants. I would expect them to be illegal to own..they certainly aren’t legal. But I think as a novelty it is safe to own a couple found in the wild or even to sell to a fellow collector. I think in parallels to driving 57 in a 55 zone. Technically illegal, but not really doing much harm and rarely prosecuted.

Thanks,
Edw.

Koinicker

@philographer said:

@Koinicker said:
I've documented these, but it has been difficult to pin down when they may have been made, or where. I only heard about them about 5 years ago, but they may certainly have been made as early as the 1980s. And until now I had been debating whether to call these 'toy money' given the plain edge and hand-made die appearance, or circulating contemporary counterfeits. This thread, and your information about finding them in circulation, has convinced me that these counterfeits were in fact made for circulation.

There is a different counterfeit Washington Quarter dated 1987, with a reeded edge; and apparently around 2000 someone out on the east coast counterfeited one of the Statehood quarters.

You should note that these are illegal to own without the word 'COPY' stamped on them pursuant to U.S. counterfeiting laws, especially the Hobby Protection Act. That said, it would be a shame to ruin them as such, but I would caution against advertising these much more.

Thanks Koinicker.

1. When you say you’ve documented these...in what cities have they been discovered and how many examples are known? Are counterfeit collectors including these in their collections?

2. I’m sure they are illegal to manufacture, sell in quantity for use in commerce, or knowingly pass to merchants. I would expect them to be illegal to own..they certainly aren’t legal. But I think as a novelty it is safe to own a couple found in the wild or even to sell to a fellow collector. I think in parallels to driving 57 in a 55 zone. Technically illegal, but not really doing much harm and rarely prosecuted.

Thanks,
Edw.

Edw,

To answer question 1 - the examples I've studied were seen in private collections, and not in the wild. Therefore, their provenance has all but been lost. That said, the counterfeit collections I've studied were all in the northeastern states. So we might broadly presume a NE U.S. origin of manufacture. New York is not an unreasonable location of origin given its population.

To answer question 2 - The Hobby Protection Act (HPA) of 1973 is very clear on the legality of numismatic imitations made after 1973. 15 U.S.C. Section 2101(b) - "The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce, or the sale in commerce of any imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked “copy”, is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act [15 U.S.C. 41 et seq.].

I did misspeak above on the legality of ownership and future distribution of a piece like this without the word 'copy' stamped on it. Pieces like this cannot be 'sold' - selling them would be considered 'distribution' and a 'sale in commerce.' That said, these examples, without the word 'copy' stamped on them, can be owned, traded and donated as such without real money changing hands, and therefore there would be no legal fault of either party. Section 2101(b) essentially summarizes a point that if there is 'any attempt to defraud commerce' then that is an illegal act (which is in line with other coin counterfeiting laws in the U.S. going back to the 19th century). And actually 'proving' that someone was attempting to defraud commerce can be tricky to prove as well.

3stars

England had to redesign the pound coin and demonitize the old ones due to the number of counterfeit ones in the wild.

mannie gray

Very interesting, thank you for posting these.

Zoins

@3stars said:
England had to redesign the pound coin and demonitize the old ones due to the number of counterfeit ones in the wild.

This was a pretty massive operation.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9178424/Three-pound-coins-in-every-100-are-fake.html

Three pound coins in every 100 were found to be fake, according to official figures.

A Royal Mint sampling of coins has discovered that just over 3 per cent – about 44 million £1 coins – are counterfeits. The number of fake £1 coins has more than doubled in the past decade.

blitzdude

Saw rolls of quarters that looked very similar to these in a Shanghai market about a decade ago. Right next to the fake Louis Vuitton bags and North Face jackets. At the time they were about 10 RMB a roll which roughly translated to $1.25 USD. Weight was off so would be rejected at the coinstar, bank counting machines, vending etc. Would guess the ones they are cranking out now are completely undetectable.

don129

Probably 20 years ago I found two counterfeit Susan B Anthony dollars in rolls from 2 different banks on Staten Island. Both look to be cast copies.

Still have them too..... anyone interested in pics? If so, I'll find & post.

AUandAG

@Koinicker said:

You should note that these are illegal to own without the word 'COPY' stamped on them pursuant to U.S. counterfeiting laws, especially the Hobby Protection Act. That said, it would be a shame to ruin them as such, but I would caution against advertising these much more.

It is NOT illegal to own counterfeit US coinage. It is illegal to make, sell or use them in commerce. Nothing illegal about owning them.

bob

JBK

@don129 said:
Probably 20 years ago I found two counterfeit Susan B Anthony dollars in rolls from 2 different banks on Staten Island. Both look to be cast copies.

Still have them too..... anyone interested in pics? If so, I'll find & post.

YES! Thx.

Koinicker

@AUandAG said:

@Koinicker said:

You should note that these are illegal to own without the word 'COPY' stamped on them pursuant to U.S. counterfeiting laws, especially the Hobby Protection Act. That said, it would be a shame to ruin them as such, but I would caution against advertising these much more.

It is NOT illegal to own counterfeit US coinage. It is illegal to make, sell or use them in commerce. Nothing illegal about owning them.

bob

See my revised, clarified comment on this! Cheers!

philographer

@don129 said:
Probably 20 years ago I found two counterfeit Susan B Anthony dollars in rolls from 2 different banks on Staten Island. Both look to be cast copies.

Still have them too..... anyone interested in pics? If so, I'll find & post.

Yes would be great to see!

cladking

@blitzdude said:
Saw rolls of quarters that looked very similar to these in a Shanghai market about a decade ago. Right next to the fake Louis Vuitton bags and North Face jackets. At the time they were about 10 RMB a roll which roughly translated to $1.25 USD. Weight was off so would be rejected at the coinstar, bank counting machines, vending etc. Would guess the ones they are cranking out now are completely undetectable.

Interesting. Thanks.

There high quality fakes out there but they are not in circulation.

SaorAlba

@don129 said:
Probably 20 years ago I found two counterfeit Susan B Anthony dollars in rolls from 2 different banks on Staten Island. Both look to be cast copies.

Still have them too..... anyone interested in pics? If so, I'll find & post.

Yes, please

ricko

Very obvious fake quarters.... I suppose parking meters would be a good application for them, or when buying a burger at fast food joints....Since I live in the NorthEast, I will watch for them... I do check my change (yes, I purchase many things with real money) though, and have seen none so far. Not even in the coinstar reject bin. Cheers, RickO

Intueor

This is an image of a counterfeit 1967 Washington Quarter I found while bartending in the late 60’s. This thread reminded me of the find but it took a while to find it. As I recall, Henry Miller of Miller’s Mint had quite an extensive collection of counterfeit coins in all denominations. I remember going to his original tiny shop in the early 70’s. He had a display of every denomination from a penny to a Morgan dollar. It was a very interesting conversation piece.

derryb

seems like it would be cheaper to make real quarters

AlexinPA

@derryb said:
seems like it would be cheaper to make real quarters

Yep.

IFindCoins

Sorry to revive a dead thread but this is an exciting topic! I've found a few of these as well.






As well as this nickel. Still trying to figure out the purpose of this.

MsMorrisine

what do they weigh?

oih82w8

They are probably made of chinesium.

CaptHenway

I wonder if any of these were related to the Chinese counterfeiting ring that was making common U.S. coins, mutilating them, and sending them to the U.S. Treasury for redemption by the ton, claiming that they were found inside crushed cars shipped to China as scrap metal.