Will there be an "economic reset, and what do YOU think an economic/monetary reset would look like?

jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 24, 2019 5:38AM in Precious Metals

I don't know the answer to "will there be an economic reset" mainly because I'd have expected something to have collapsed the current house of cards long before now. The debt and debt refinancing numbers have really never added up, and the fact that the dollar has been the world's reserve currency since Bretton Woods has allowed the "system" to survive for a long time past it's logical and mathematical expiration date.

Those are my opinions, and the reset hasn't occurred. Now we find via Michigan State professor Mark Sizemore and Katherine Austin Fitts that there's been a convenient way to stash some of the unlimited money creation into black holes in the budget that aren't ever made visible for public scrutiny or any measure of accountability. The obvious conclusion is that the Fed can inflate and huge spending programs can be doled out to crony enterprises in a very secretive, unethical and illegal way. The corruption is worse than anyone even suspected, on many levels.

None of this even considers the known problems of chronic deficit overspending, changes in FASB accounting standards for mark to market, insolvent pension funds, and an incalculable matrix of leveraged financial derivatives combined with automated high frequency trading in the stock market with no oversight.

Against this backdrop, can the realities of this model continue for a long time more? I think it's reaching more than just a debt saturation point, and there's a point where carte blanche money creation becomes widely recognized as a scam. The rate of creation of goods & services has apparently lagged way behind the amount of debt and money creation by orders of magnitude.

So, do you think there will be an economic/monetary reset? If not, why not?

If so, what do you think it will look like?

Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

I knew it would happen.

Comments

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭✭

    There will be a reset. It will happen before 2050.

    Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security/Black Ops assure it will happen and Congress sure as hell won't stop it.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019 11:14AM

    If you had a way to reset YOUR debt would you do it?

    "Hey honey, I'm truly sorry, lets put all this behind us and start over."

    I suspect the Globalees will have a lot of influence on when and how it occurs and it is most likely to involve a new currency that can only be used electronically. The EU is an economic experiment in progress that will determine how a worldwide experiment will be implemented. I believe the IMF will spearhead and dictate the program on behalf of the hidden faces behind it. Most likely initially involve an electronic currency pegged to IMF's SDR. For this reason reset cannot be implemented until the electronic currency has been put in place.

    There is a good argument that all "competing" currencies will have to be eliminated. This would likely included outlawing private ownership of precious metals and criminalizing barter.

    There is some concern that currencies and economies are purposely being subverted to create a need for the "reset." The unfolding international crisis will create a vacancy for a hero (IMF?) to step in and save the world.

    Remember these clowns (1999 magazine cover) who set the stage for the 2008 collapse?

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 40,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They say the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, but I think that's a fallacy. The poor will always be poor. They don't get poorer, only hungrier and needier. And if there were to be a reset, the haves will still have and the have nots will still not have. And incidentally, with banks we will always have "funny banking rules".

  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Make no mistake, the founding of the Federal Reserve Bank in 1913 started a slow, stealth reset that has been transferring wealth ever since.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 40,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can't argue with you DerryB. I'm in total agreement that the nation's wealth was a transfer of "power" by the passage of the Federal Reserve Act. And they (that private corporation) have controlled who gets what, ever since.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,610 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 1,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Butter and beans, bring it! Pretty sure I wouldn't even notice. Just like this gooberment "shutdown" lulz

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 23,044 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Greenspan did not invent no doc loans

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019 6:35PM

    @MsMorrisine said:
    Greenspan did not invent no doc loans

    Much worse, he helped create the enviornment for them. Greenspan and his two accomplices pictured above testified under oath before congress that there was no need to regulate financial derivatives because they offered no threat to the economy. Their testimony was a Wall St. necessity and in direct conflict with that given by then CTFC Chairman Brooksly Born that derivatives were a major threat to the stability of the economy and should be regulated. We now know who was right and who was way, way, way wrong.

    Little did we know that the crew declared "to save the world" in 1999 would help bring it to its knees by 2008. A prime example of why public servants/regulators in the financial arena should not be selected from the rank and file of Wall St.

    A must see: PBS's The Warning

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    Make no mistake, the founding of the Federal Reserve Bank in 1913 started a slow, stealth reset that has been transferring wealth ever since.

    Yes but resetting the National Debt when it's $50+ trillion will read like Fahrenheit 451. It'll get hot and some will get burned.

  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe you will see massive reform on some monetary policies, but I wouldn’t want to be around if the government decides to hit “control, alt, delete”.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 23,044 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OTC derivatives allowed the contagion to grow large with 30:1 leverage and tie major players together. He has said he didn't think these financial firms would put themselves at risk of ruin. He said the testimony was an error. This led to the near collapse and Lehman's failure.

    This misses huge factors leading up to it. Bubble mania on housing, liar loans & subprime loans out the ears, and the lack of security MBS with contained subprime despite being sold as prime bundles.

    A lot of people were rolled up in this and the tide went out and no one had a swimsuit on. I agree regulation would have contained the contagion but we still would have had a housing led recession.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    A lot of people were rolled up in this and the tide went out and no one had a swimsuit on. I agree regulation would have contained the contagion but we still would have had a housing led recession.

    The housing led recession was fueled in part by the Greenspan FED's historically low interest rates.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 23,044 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was wondering if that'd come up

    The fed had even lower rates after. I know. I have a 2.5% loan. A lot of things changed to inhibit more craze: falling prices, tighter loan requirements.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,610 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @MsMorrisine said:
    A lot of people were rolled up in this and the tide went out and no one had a swimsuit on. I agree regulation would have contained the contagion but we still would have had a housing led recession.

    The housing led recession was fueled in part by the Greenspan FED's historically low interest rates.

    At the request of Clinton and Bush to make sure everyone owned a home.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019 9:12PM

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @MsMorrisine said:
    A lot of people were rolled up in this and the tide went out and no one had a swimsuit on. I agree regulation would have contained the contagion but we still would have had a housing led recession.

    The housing led recession was fueled in part by the Greenspan FED's historically low interest rates.

    At the request of Clinton and Bush to make sure everyone owned a home.

    Well that's the reason they gave, but I'm sure Clinton and Bush's Wall St. handlers had other motives. Exactly why an independent FED is just a pipe dream; it is actually owned by those that whisper into the ears of politicians.

    Strange that around the same time one of those two goodfellas signed into law a bill that exempted student debt from bankruptcy protection. Funny how things work to the advantage of bankers.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @VanHalen said:

    @derryb said:
    Make no mistake, the founding of the Federal Reserve Bank in 1913 started a slow, stealth reset that has been transferring wealth ever since.

    Yes but resetting the National Debt when it's $50+ trillion will read like Fahrenheit 451. It'll get hot and some will get burned.

    Resetting/defaulting on sovereign debt will never be necessary as long as the bulk of it is buried in Federal Reserve accounts. The only potential threat is when other nations demand to be paid. But then again, what are they gonna do, threaten us? Their only alternative is to slowly rid themselves of it which is exactly what they have been doing.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At the request of Clinton and Bush to make sure everyone owned a home.

    As I recall, Carter was in on the scheme at the beginning.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    At the request of Clinton and Bush to make sure everyone owned a home.

    As I recall, Carter was in on the scheme at the beginning.

    President Bush Signs American Dream Downpayment Act of 2003

    Remarks by the President at Signing of the American Dream Downpayment Act:

    "One of the biggest hurdles to homeownership is getting money for a down payment. This administration has recognized that, and so today I'm honored to be here to sign a law that will help many low-income buyers to overcome that hurdle, and to achieve an important part of the American Dream."

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA, P.L. 95-128, 91 Stat. 1147, title VIII of the Housing and Community Development Act of 1977, 12 U.S.C. § 2901 et seq.) is a United States federal law designed to encourage commercial banks and savings associations to help meet the needs of borrowers in all segments of their communities, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA, P.L. 95-128, 91 Stat. 1147, title VIII of the Housing and Community Development Act of 1977, 12 U.S.C. § 2901 et seq.) is a United States federal law designed to encourage commercial banks and savings associations to help meet the needs of borrowers in all segments of their communities, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods.

    In other words "loan them money, we regulate you."

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @derryb said:
    Make no mistake, the founding of the Federal Reserve Bank in 1913 started a slow, stealth reset that has been transferring wealth ever since.

    Yes but resetting the National Debt when it's $50+ trillion will read like Fahrenheit 451. It'll get hot and some will get burned.

    Resetting/defaulting on sovereign debt will never be necessary as long as the bulk of it is buried in Federal Reserve accounts. The only potential threat is when other nations demand to be paid. But then again, what are they gonna do, threaten us? Their only alternative is to slowly rid themselves of it which is exactly what they have been doing.

    We're not far from the day of $1 trillion/year interest payments on the debt. We'll also see $2 trillion/year Federal deficits before long. Some of it can be buried all of the time. All of it can be buried, some of the time.........

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 23,044 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @jmski52 said:
    At the request of Clinton and Bush to make sure everyone owned a home.

    As I recall, Carter was in on the scheme at the beginning.

    President Bush Signs American Dream Downpayment Act of 2003

    Remarks by the President at Signing of the American Dream Downpayment Act:

    "One of the biggest hurdles to homeownership is getting money for a down payment. This administration has recognized that, and so today I'm honored to be here to sign a law that will help many low-income buyers to overcome that hurdle, and to achieve an important part of the American Dream."

    In the 2008 aftermath, it was found that those who made low %age down payments were more likely to default.

    This is another change restricting housing mania in these time of even record lower interest rates.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,610 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In the 2008 aftermath, it was found that those who made low %age down payments were more likely to default

    Many continued to live in those houses without making any payments for several years.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2019 6:02PM

    @cohodk said:
    In the 2008 aftermath, it was found that those who made low %age down payments were more likely to default

    Many continued to live in those houses without making any payments for several years.

    Because the foreclosing entity knew most of them would keep it from rotting. Once evicted, the lender becomes responsible to the city for public safety and yard overgrowth.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 21,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That doesn't sound like the nicest neighborhood in derryville!

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since we,the people, don't see the "books", who knows how good/bad things really are. We just take "their' word for it.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    If you had a way to reset YOUR debt would you do it?

    "Hey honey, I'm truly sorry, lets put all this behind us and start over."

    I suspect the Globalees will have a lot of influence on when and how it occurs and it is most likely to involve a new currency that can only be used electronically. The EU is an economic experiment in progress that will determine how a worldwide experiment will be implemented. I believe the IMF will spearhead and dictate the program on behalf of the hidden faces behind it. Most likely initially involve an electronic currency pegged to IMF's SDR. For this reason reset cannot be implemented until the electronic currency has been put in place.

    There is a good argument that all "competing" currencies will have to be eliminated. This would likely included outlawing private ownership of precious metals and criminalizing barter.

    There is some concern that currencies and economies are purposely being subverted to create a need for the "reset." The unfolding international crisis will create a vacancy for a hero (IMF?) to step in and save the world.

    Remember these clowns (1999 magazine cover) who set the stage for the 2008 collapse?

    When I see this pix of Mr. G on the cover of Time, it reminds me of Mr. Peabody from the old TV show The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show from the early sixties.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit
  • ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,583 ✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @MsMorrisine said:
    A lot of people were rolled up in this and the tide went out and no one had a swimsuit on. I agree regulation would have contained the contagion but we still would have had a housing led recession.

    The housing led recession was fueled in part by the Greenspan FED's historically low interest rates.

    At the request of Clinton and Bush to make sure everyone owned a home.

    Oh no, Not Bush! He did nothing wrong! :D

    image
  • derrybderryb Posts: 27,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    collapse is a process, it is not an event. sorta like erosion or termites.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Having skin in the game by owning your own home is a good idea. But, to give free housing to uncreditworthy borrowers who ultimately have no liability and who take no responsibility for owning that same home - penalizes and insults the rest of us who actually worked to own ours.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:

    When I see this pix of Mr. G on the cover of Time, it reminds me of Mr. Peabody from the old TV show The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show from the early sixties.

    If you are from the Chicago area it resembles Bozo the Clown and Al Capone. In more ways than one.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 288 ✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019 4:34PM

    @VanHalen said:

    @derryb said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @derryb said:
    Make no mistake, the founding of the Federal Reserve Bank in 1913 started a slow, stealth reset that has been transferring wealth ever since.

    Yes but resetting the National Debt when it's $50+ trillion will read like Fahrenheit 451. It'll get hot and some will get burned.

    Resetting/defaulting on sovereign debt will never be necessary as long as the bulk of it is buried in Federal Reserve accounts. The only potential threat is when other nations demand to be paid. But then again, what are they gonna do, threaten us? Their only alternative is to slowly rid themselves of it which is exactly what they have been doing.

    We're not far from the day of $1 trillion/year interest payments on the debt. We'll also see $2 trillion/year Federal deficits before long. Some of it can be buried all of the time. All of it can be buried, some of the time.........

    To my knowledge, the increase in the national debt has always exceeded the annual budget deficit due to offbudget spending. For 2018, the debt increased by $1.2T versus a reported deficit of $779B, a "rounding error" of $400B+.

    During the GFC, the deficit increased from $400B or $500B to $1.5T. Next time, probably at least $3T. Revenue will decrease and spending will soar, again.

    My estimate is the system has enough stability to survive "as is" for maybe one more cycle before it starts falling apart at the seams.

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,091 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The same game has been played on us all forever. Last big change occurred in the 40’s and resulted in unimaginable disparity. A real reset would require an audit of Fed and repeal of congressional maindate.

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,091 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derby said : .... it was Bush. I agree that Bush signed the 2003 bill but pretty sure he dident write it. The financial crisis in housing market was more about driving the market prices up then loans to poor folks. When buy back aka quantitative easing stop the bubble is shifted to real estate because it’s only thing big enough to hide the debt. Markets fell so banks could justify the great theft. Take the money you save up for 10 years to buy your house during your prime years then take it back to pay the Fed. Banks waited 3-5 years before they wrote off those mortgages.

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