Home U.S. Coin Forum

Here's a very old type of alteration on a Morgan dollar...

Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

The fields have been heavily polished to resemble a cameo PL.

Note how the polishing smoothed out the hits between the letters:

Comments

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,368 ✭✭✭✭✭

    California cams, typically obvious but worth revisiting to teach

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    oh my.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Step back with the camera my bro so we can see the whole coin.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019 5:08PM

    He's said before, not able to show whole coin, nor realistic white balance. Too bad.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,620 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see what you mean Skip. Thanks for the snapshot.

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You're publishing it here! Whole coin photos please (and please remove that gold Instagram type filter).

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent example! You can clearly see that the flow lines were smoothed over by the tooling/polishing process.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How is ICG's employee of the state of the art imaging department kept busy?

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If this is a California I'd like it if available. I've never seen one in-hand :disappointed:

    The more you VAM..
  • JimWJimW Posts: 540 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the educational post!!

    Successful BST Transactions: erwindoc, VTchaser, moursund, robkool, RelicKING, Herb_T, Meltdown

  • LJenkins11LJenkins11 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have never seen this before and since it took me a long time to understand precisely what everyone was seeing and saying regarding double dies vs machine/shelf doubling are you illustrating the areas immediately surrounding the letters that appear cloudy/rough? And thank you in advance for the educational post.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019 1:05PM

    @LJenkins11 said:
    I have never seen this before and since it took me a long time to understand precisely what everyone was seeing and saying regarding double dies vs machine/shelf doubling are you illustrating the areas immediately surrounding the letters that appear cloudy/rough? And thank you in advance for the educational post.

    Good question. Look at the image. In your own words, describe what you see if I was on the telephone and could not see the coin. Tell me about the color and the different textures on the coin and where you see them.

  • LJenkins11LJenkins11 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, when I look at the B and U, the immediate fields surrounding the B and U, meaning the exact tracing of each letter, to include inside the B, look nothing like the majority of the fields on the majority of the coin. Did I get that right or am I still seeing things? I appreciate open feedback and thank you in advance.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LJenkins11 said: "Well, when I look at the B and U, the immediate fields surrounding the B and U, meaning the exact tracing of each letter, to include inside the B, look nothing like the majority of the fields on the majority of the coin."

    Good, stay with it, remember, I cannot see the coin. What do they look like? Color? Black, white, silver, gray, (definitely red in your image (LOL). What about the texture? Inside the letters, near the letters, near the denticals, in the field between the letters? Do you know what radial metal flow is?

  • LJenkins11LJenkins11 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is great, thank you for your patience and teachings. ... I had to look up radial metal flow as I did not know what it is. I can see it basically outside the borders everywhere I drew the red lines, as in someone with a tool of some sorts couldn't get close enough to finish the job. To answer your question, the areas immediately near to the letters and denticals look much rougher and bright than the surrounding fields, very bright as shown in the photo.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are called "radial" because they generally go out from the center of the coin. They are caused by planchet metal filling erosion lines in the die, The reflection of light from these micro (at first) lines gives the coin it's mint luster. The bright areas with the tiny little parallel lines are the remnants of the radials that were not polished away because they were "protected" by the raised relief of the coin's design. The bright outline you marked in red gives the coin a "halo" appearance around the letters. A "halo" is a clue that something is going on with the surface. In most cases, it is not something good.

    The fields have been highly polished. They reflect light (luster). This type of "luster" is mirror-like and does not resemble the mint luster from an original coin but it does look like the luster from a PL coin and that's why this alteration is done in the first place.

    Confused folks here are going to tell you that a proof coin or a PL coin does not have luster (the reflection of light from a surface). They do, it is just not the usual "frosty" luster usually found on MS coins. Arguing with them will only make you look like a fool and it will not change their minds.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great post @Insider2 ...A fine point often overlooked. This will help many people. Your posts are very informative. Cheers, RickO

  • IrishMikeyIrishMikey Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭

    A really well done "California Proof" silver dollar is a neat-looking alteration, and usually attracts attention at a coin club meeting. They are not seen as often as they used to, in the 1970's and 1980's. Wonder where they all went?

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file