For love of late die states

scubafuel

Throughout my collecting career, I've always been drawn toward coins struck with dies that were just hanging on by a thread. Cracked, lapped, recut, held together with twine, I love it all. They are most apparent on coins of the early mint, but massive cracks and cuds can be found all the way into the modern era. I'm thinking of doing a LDS type set...
If you've got em, post em!

scubafuel

Smudge

Die cracks add character. I like them as well.

Fairlaneman

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Ken

Bob13

And super excited to have this one on the way...

JasonGaming

This one’s not as late as the ones above but still nice.

Desert Moon

Did someone say die states?

Best, SH

scubafuel

SH, those are great!

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scubafuel

Hi Realone, this coin isn’t mine, so I just have the reverse pic.
However, this is close to the latest state, but not THE latest I’ve seen. Close enough not to matter to most people I’d think.
I will certainly pay a premium for late die states, but some people dislike them or are indifferent. Just personal preference, and a matter of how scarce the LDS version is.

ms70

Reverse cracked in half from about 2:30 to 8:00.

OKbustchaser

I've shown it before, but this is one of my favorite die marriages...O-106

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asheland

@scubafuel said:

I love that!

scubafuel

@Okbustchaser, that is an awesome variety! Those bust half dies were pushed to the very edge it seems.

@Realone, these are all cracks with some vertical displacement of the broken die pieces. So you could call them retained cuds I guess. I’ve never seen this reverse with actual cuds (where the pieces of die have fallen out, leaving no detail). Have you?

While the 1811/9 is most common in some form of mid/late state, a review of HA shows it to be unusual this far gone. The “c” in 25c is almost gone due to an obverse die bulge, which seems rare.

oih82w8

Great examples of desirable late die states; cracks, cuds, filled dies, etc...

There are some LDS which actually detract from the appeal & value, the 1849/6 H10C as an example. The EDS shows more of the detail that is desired with the underlying digits.

carabonnair

I shared this a couple years ago (I need to get a better photo) but still one of my favorites:

BillJones

As a type collector I prefer early die states because they usually yield the best details of the design. Sometimes you have to take what you can get, and sometimes lite die states can be very interesting.

Here is a "take what I could get." The dies that were used to strike this 1839-C quarter eagle were extensively broken. Most all of the lines you see on this AU-50 graded coin are die breaks.

On the other hand, it's hard to figure out how the obverse die that was used to strike this Bros Pie Bakers Civil War token stayed together. This piece is actually fairly common. Somehow they got a fair number of impressions from it. Note the heavy die clashing on the reverse.

Sunshine Rare Coins

scubafuel

@billjones , that 1839C has a great look. Unusual also because most of the US mints seemed much more intolerant of die cracks / damage on gold coins than on silver and copper. Thanks for posting it.
@bob13 , awesome clashing on the 1813. Is that pretty rare?

johnny9434

I like the lds's as well. there neat to look at and have there own story to tell. jmo

Southcounty

scubafuel

@Southcounty that one is amazing! I had no idea there was a seated half die pair with a shattered reverse like that. Is there a story behind this specific variety? How rare is it? This is one I'll have to be on the lookout for.

Anyone have the 1805/4 o103 with shattered obverse to post? @nysoto perhaps?

@Ultrahighrelief can't believe the 1819 quarter with shattered date is still in your inventory! This is one of the coolest varieties in the entire bust series. I think it needs to be collected as its own separate variety, similar to the 1818 B9 with clashed arrowheads.

fastfreddie

StrikeOutXXX

Terminal.

Southcounty

@scubafuel said:
@Southcounty that one is amazing! I had no idea there was a seated half die pair with a shattered reverse like that. Is there a story behind this specific variety? How rare is it? This is one I'll have to be on the lookout for.

Anyone have the 1805/4 o103 with shattered obverse to post? @nysoto perhaps?

@Ultrahighrelief can't believe the 1819 quarter with shattered date is still in your inventory! This is one of the coolest varieties in the entire bust series. I think it needs to be collected as its own separate variety, similar to the 1818 B9 with clashed arrowheads.

Scubafuel, there are quite a few heavily cracked and shattered seated half dollar die marriages, but this 1843 die marriage is probably one of the most extensive and dramatic. This die marriage can be found in various die states leading up to this terminal or near terminal state. I have two late die state examples in my die marriage collection for 1843, but this is my favorite. I paid a premium for it, but it is also in a PCGS AU58+ holder which demands a certain premium even for generic examples. I think fans of terminal die states and die cracks will continue to dictate that this die marriage bring some premium now and in the future. I would guess this very late die state is likely R5+ or R6.

Bob13

@scubafuel - per “Bust Half Fever” by Edgar Souders (a great book!) the 1813s are most likely to show clash marks in the series of all the dates. It’s definitely not that rare.

JRocco

I know this is a medal but it has to be included if you are talking about late die states.
This is The Wrath of God

kaz

This Peale Museum admission "ticket" has a big die break on the obv.

scubafuel

@Jrocco, those cracks are ridiculous! I wonder how many strikes that medal took to raise them so high? They make the imagery even creepier.

Here is a clashed, LDS version of 1818 B2 which is ex- @1TwoBits. This is the only bust quarter I've ever seen with the letters "e pluribus" clashed into the obverse, though it's more common on bust halves. It also has the date clashed into the reverse at "STATES". Even some of the eagles feathers show up as clash marks!

1TwoBits

Love all those late die states! A LDS type set would be a good theme.

I love them on the bust quarters...

but also other denominations...

1tommy

First coin came from Fred Weinberg and second coin was found by JT Stanton. Love that both are reunited after 50 some years. Enjoy Tom

scubafuel

Those are really cool Tommy. The mint doesn’t usually let proof dies deteriorate like that.

1tommy

Thanks @scubafuel .

Fred said it was the first one he saw in the Proof Quarter Series with such a major die crack and the fact that JT found the other one a few years later and I got lucky to find it for sale on ebay before anyone else is what was so cool. Just thinking these two coins were struck so close together and than reunited after 50 some years apart.

Enjoy Tom

BG

Nysoto

Great thread! I think a LDS type set would be awesome, I don't believe it has been done. It would take patience, some of the LDS on early coins are R-7 to R-8 rarity.

A lot of my type coins are LDS, without really planning on it, I just prefer LDS coins - they are more interesting. My only bust quarters are LDS from Jules Reiver. I used to have about half of the draped bust dime die marriages up to AU58, and just kept one, which I picked from eBay long ago. It ended up in a Coin World article, as this die state had not been mentioned before:

I have many LDS flowing and draped half dollars with cuds and huge cracks, I will have to image them again.

Anyone have the 1805/4 o103 with shattered obverse to post? @nysoto perhaps?

And 1806/6, R-7 in this die stage with two reverse cuds:

scubafuel

@BG, did you own that quarter previously? I believe it’s the same one I posted above.

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fastfreddie

1843. This Philadelphia mint is common, relative for 1840's Philly quarters and is mainly known for the lightning bolt reverse. I don't believe this is the die pairing of the lightning bold reverse and would need to verify. However, this die state is scarce but available.
      
      

drddm

Not sure if all of these have been shown before but here are a few LDS Bust Halves.

Dave

1812 O.106

1814 O.106a

1818 O.115a

BG

@scubafuel said:
@BG, did you own that quarter previously? I believe it’s the same one I posted above.

Sure did. Sorry

Sold at a show many years back and don't know the new owner.

MonsterCoinz

1630Boston

Not sure this qualifies, but I'm down to about 55 coins in my collection

1630Boston

PS @scubafuel
great thread
Boston