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Still wrapping my head around this....

Skin2Skin2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭

Sammy Sosa hit over 60 home runs in THREE different seasons(each time breaking Roger Maris's record)...and yet he didn't lead the league in home runs in any of those seasons.

I just think how long that record stood, how many contenders there were, and the all-star break 'projections' for the record that we enjoyed over the years. Then Sammy Sosa breaks the hallowed record three times...and doesn't even lead the league in home runs in any of those years.

Still boggles my baseball mind.

Comments

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Skin2 said:
    Sammy Sosa hit over 60 home runs in THREE different seasons(each time breaking Roger Maris's record)...and yet he didn't lead the league in home runs in any of those seasons.

    I just think how long that record stood, how many contenders there were, and the all-star break 'projections' for the record that we enjoyed over the years. Then Sammy Sosa breaks the hallowed record three times...and doesn't even lead the league in home runs in any of those years.

    Still boggles my baseball mind.

    Those were three truly Ruthian seasons that sort of get swept under the carpet in baseball history right now. Enormous elephant in the room when I take my son to Cooperstown...

    “...Sosa has a remarkable 243 HR and 597 RBI in a 4 season span and over here you’ll see the bat McGwire hit 70 HRs with and over there are the cleats Barry Bonds wore when he broke Hank Aaron’s all time HR mark. Plaques? No, no plaques. Moving on, here you’ll see Nap LaJoie’s bat from 19...”

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,361 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s the steroid thing that ruins it, you guys know that. Personally I don’t know how much or how little it should matter. For me I don’t care either way, but agreed it’s crazy to think that Sosa broke the 60 mark that many times and didn’t lead the league.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My view he could have a been swinging a callaway big bertha covered in pine tar and filled with cork.and it would count just as much.

    Lot of steroid sissies on here .

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Skin2 said:
    Sammy Sosa hit over 60 home runs in THREE different seasons(each time breaking Roger Maris's record)...and yet he didn't lead the league in home runs in any of those seasons.

    I just think how long that record stood, how many contenders there were, and the all-star break 'projections' for the record that we enjoyed over the years. Then Sammy Sosa breaks the hallowed record three times...and doesn't even lead the league in home runs in any of those years.

    Still boggles my baseball mind.

    He obviously wasn’t taking enough steroids

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No accolades for a guy who only juices himself into second place.

    Its like being endowed with superpowers, and then being beat up by a drunken
    Robin at the Superheros' annual Christmas party.

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    None of those juicers deserve any credit. Hank Aaron is the HR King!

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Better to talk about the 30 home run per season hitters that didn't cheat.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DIMEMAN said:
    None of those juicers deserve any credit. Hank Aaron is the HR King!

    AGREE!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭

    McGuire broke the 47 year old homerun record and wasn't MVP.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • JRR300JRR300 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭✭

    It's really a shame that we have to go through this. For years, the Babe's single season record held the top spot until Maris broke it (it took more games) and then that mark falls and is beaten 7 times (I think) during the 'roid' era. Just doesn't seem right. Don't want to get into the steroid debate, but here's the dilemma I have. Surely you must acknowledge those who the best during that era, like Sosa and Bonds and Mcgwire, and they deserve to be recognized. But how do you do it and not take away from the accomplishments of those before them? I certainly don't know and it's obvious that baseball hasn't figured it out either.

  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JRR300 said:
    Surely you must acknowledge those who the best during that era, like Sosa and Bonds and Mcgwire, and they deserve to be recognized.

    Recognized as cheaters, you mean. Because in baseball, steroids aren't allowed so the people using them weren't playing baseball. It makes no sense for major league baseball to recognize them, and I wish they'd put Aaron and Maris' baseball records back where they belong.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dallasactuary said:

    @JRR300 said:
    Surely you must acknowledge those who the best during that era, like Sosa and Bonds and Mcgwire, and they deserve to be recognized.

    Recognized as cheaters, you mean. Because in baseball, steroids aren't allowed so the people using them weren't playing baseball. It makes no sense for major league baseball to recognize them, and I wish they'd put Aaron and Maris' baseball records back where they belong.

    Totally agree on this one!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the problem with being a stat guy is you get so caught up in the numbers that you lose the big picture. The reason that steroids don't matter is that the entire game of baseball is trivial and no one cares.

    The answer is 7 , thats how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. If they tuck their wings in just right its actually 9. If you are talking about angels using steroids its more like 5 , because they bulk up obviously.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2019 7:09AM

    If someone came along now and hit 63 HR’s and never had an accusation against him for PEDS the same guys would be crying that Maris record should count due to some other nonsense. Same thing if Someone hits 756 HRs straight

  • JRR300JRR300 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, I do realize that they cheated, but so did numerous guys that played during that era. All I'm saying is that they were the best players during that time and should be recognized as such. I'm not condoning it but simply making a statement about the players of that era.
    unfortunately for baseball fans, the stats are the one thing that allow us to somewhat compare players of different eras. I'm not old enough to have seen Ruth, Williams, Di Maggio...(should I keep going), but you can get a sense of how good they were by the stats they accumulated. How difficult a feat is DiMaggio's hit streak when players, yes even those during the steroid era, haven't even come close to this? Babe Ruth hit 60 HR in a season where they only played 154 games; add that to the fact that the ball they played with just did not travel as far as the baseballs made today and the parks were much larger and you get a sense of how great that feat was. Those statistics simply provide that basis for comparison and the steroid users have made comparisons during those years irrelevant.

  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JRR300 said:
    All I'm saying is that they were the best players during that time and should be recognized as such.

    NO!!!

    Imagine you and I are taking a test in - doesn't matter, could be anything - French poetry. And let's say that you happen to actually know a lot about French poetry while I don't even speak French. You get a 90 on the test, and I get 100. Which one of us knows French poetry better? Obviously, you do. I cheated. But you are arguing that it is in fact I who knows French poetry better than you do, and I should be "recognized" for it. That's bull$hit, and we all know it. And it's still bull$hit if there were 20 people taking the test and 10 or even 15 of us cheated. Recognize Bonds, etc. for being good at cheating if you really want to, although I can't imagine why anyone would. But you simply can't recognize them for being good at baseball because they weren't playing baseball.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    without that upswing in interest because of all the home runs those juicers were hitting baseball was finished. A cynic might say the league allowed it to keep viewers .

  • JRR300JRR300 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭✭

    yes they did. you can even say they looked the other way. it brought people back to the game when it was dying. good, bad or indifferent, and the league didn't do anything to stop or curtail it. How do you know who cheated? I can go on and on. You may choose to dismiss that entire era of baseball, but it still existed, men still played the games, and there were a number of them who excelled at it. Unfortunately, there is no delete button to make it all disappear.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JRR300 said:
    Yes, I do realize that they cheated, but so did numerous guys that played during that era. All I'm saying is that they were the best players during that time and should be recognized as such. I'm not condoning it but simply making a statement about the players of that era.
    unfortunately for baseball fans, the stats are the one thing that allow us to somewhat compare players of different eras. I'm not old enough to have seen Ruth, Williams, Di Maggio...(should I keep going), but you can get a sense of how good they were by the stats they accumulated. How difficult a feat is DiMaggio's hit streak when players, yes even those during the steroid era, haven't even come close to this? Babe Ruth hit 60 HR in a season where they only played 154 games; add that to the fact that the ball they played with just did not travel as far as the baseballs made today and the parks were much larger and you get a sense of how great that feat was. Those statistics simply provide that basis for comparison and the steroid users have made comparisons during those years irrelevant.

    Bonds was possibly the best all around player of his time (alond with A-Roid), but McGwire and Sosa were not.

    None of these three guys were hitting anywhere near the home runs in their early careers. McGwire hit about 36 per year on average, Sosa about 34 and Bonds about 27. This is a 5-6 year average not including partial seasons or rookie seasons except for McGwire, who started off with 49 and then averaged 30 for the next 5 years.

    Rodriguez is the one that really could have been the challenger to Mays as the best player of all time had he stayed clean. What a shame!

    Doesn't really matter though, because they aren't just competing against players of their time they are being measured against players of all-time.

    Four players for sure in the top 11 and six in the top 15 all-time career home runs took steroids and I'm not including a couple who get accused, but it hasn't been proven.

    They created an asterisk for Maris, there should be a separate list with these guys listed as frauds. The REAL list should not include them at all.

    I really can't believe the people who say these cheaters "saved" baseball. Get a clue, it might have sparked interest, but baseball is never going out of business.

    I could say these idiots "ruined" baseball and it would be wrong as well but more accurate than "saved">

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JRR300 said:
    How do you know who cheated? You may choose to dismiss that entire era of baseball, but it still existed, men still played the games, and there were a number of them who excelled at it. Unfortunately, there is no delete button to make it all disappear.

    I don't dismiss the entire era, because there were lots of people still playing baseball, and they deserve recognition. And while there is no delete button to make the cheaters disappear, I, and all fans of baseball, will always treat the cheaters the same as if they had disappeared.

    And while I don't know each and every cheater, that doesn't mean we don't all know some of them. We know to a metaphysical certainty that Bonds cheated; we can choose to honor him for cheating so well, or we can choose to honor those who played baseball well, or at least those we aren't certain were cheating. I don't understand the impulse to honor cheating, but I know I won't do it.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is no doubt that the baseball execs looked the other way.

    Frankly, many fans looked the other way as well. I mean all of a sudden these bulked-up looking players were hitting home runs like they were using fungo bats.

    Let's be honest, we all knew, but at the time we didn't wish to let go of the thrill.

    Well the thrill went away and reality finally set in that the game was being bastardized.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I watched as much baseball as possible right up to the 1994 strike. After the strike I realized that I didn’t t miss it all that much. Especially the regular season. Not to sound like Glicker but the thought of a 3 1/2 hour regular season game seems like torture to me. I would rather read the 2018 Philadelphia Eagles thread in its entirety

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:
    I watched as much baseball as possible right up to the 1994 strike. After the strike I realized that I didn’t t miss it all that much. Especially the regular season. Not to sound like Glicker but the thought of a 3 1/2 hour regular season game seems like torture to me. I would rather read the 2018 Philadelphia Eagles thread in its entirety

    m

    You sound like Glicker!

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:

    @Justacommeman said:
    I watched as much baseball as possible right up to the 1994 strike. After the strike I realized that I didn’t t miss it all that much. Especially the regular season. Not to sound like Glicker but the thought of a 3 1/2 hour regular season game seems like torture to me. I would rather read the 2018 Philadelphia Eagles thread in its entirety

    m

    You sound like Glicker!

    Indeed

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2019 7:56PM

    @Justacommeman said:

    @Coinstartled said:

    @Justacommeman said:
    I watched as much baseball as possible right up to the 1994 strike. After the strike I realized that I didn’t t miss it all that much. Especially the regular season. Not to sound like Glicker but the thought of a 3 1/2 hour regular season game seems like torture to me. I would rather read the 2018 Philadelphia Eagles thread in its entirety

    m

    You sound like Glicker!

    Indeed

    m

    Mark

    Were you in Detroit when Schembechler canned Ernie Harwell?

    That was the first day of my trek to distance myself from professional sports.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2019 7:58PM

    @Coinstartled said:

    @Justacommeman said:

    @Coinstartled said:

    @Justacommeman said:
    I watched as much baseball as possible right up to the 1994 strike. After the strike I realized that I didn’t t miss it all that much. Especially the regular season. Not to sound like Glicker but the thought of a 3 1/2 hour regular season game seems like torture to me. I would rather read the 2018 Philadelphia Eagles thread in its entirety

    m

    You sound like Glicker!

    Indeed

    m

    Mark

    Were you in Detroit when Schembechler canned Ernie Harwell?

    That was the first day of my trek to distance myself from professional sports.

    No but that certainly sucked

    Ernie on a called third strike, “ he stood there like the house on the side of the road.”

    None better

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And when Ernie called the game, the fouls were always caught by a guy from Algonac or Lapeer Michigan.

    I was probably 25 before I figured out that he was making that stuff up. :)

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:
    I watched as much baseball as possible right up to the 1994 strike. After the strike I realized that I didn’t t miss it all that much. Especially the regular season. Not to sound like Glicker but the thought of a 3 1/2 hour regular season game seems like torture to me. I would rather read the 2018 Philadelphia Eagles thread in its entirety

    m

    <<< I would rather read the 2018 Philadelphia Eagles thread in its entirety >>>

    It's on the recommended reading list of the "I Have No Life" society. :D

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:
    There is no doubt that the baseball execs looked the other way.

    Frankly, many fans looked the other way as well. I mean all of a sudden these bulked-up looking players were hitting home runs like they were using fungo bats.

    Let's be honest, we all knew, but at the time we didn't wish to let go of the thrill.

    Well the thrill went away and reality finally set in that the game was being bastardized.

    The player's union was equally at fault.

    When I worked for a union they would NOT fight to get your job back under certain circumstances.

    In this case, the union should have worked with the execs and addressed the issue much more quickly, but that's not how things worked. The cheaters and others who benefited financially got paid and the "true" sportsmen got shafted.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
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