dealer buy prices

GazesGazes Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭✭✭

I know gold bars have different premiums when being sold depending on the manufacturer. my experience when selling is that most dealers treat all gold bars the same and offer the same price. Is this what others have found?

Comments

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold bars typically sell back of spot. Manufacture typically doesn't matter. I think the price is low due to astronomical numbers of counterfeits. Disclaimer: I haven't bought or sold may due to counterfeit issues but see it everyday.

  • tneigtneig Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭

    Ouch!

    COA
  • FSFFSF Posts: 362 ✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    Gold bars typically sell back of spot. Manufacture typically doesn't matter. I think the price is low due to astronomical numbers of counterfeits. Disclaimer: I haven't bought or sold may due to counterfeit issues but see it everyday.

    On top of this, liquidity can be a nightmare. I've never known a local B&M willing to make an offer on a gold bar.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 6,965 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the whole point of a bar is that it trades near spot , narrow spreads are what you look for. If you choose to over pay for a plain lump of metal thinking its collectible its your right. Others will not make the same mistake.

    The words collectible and bar pushed together in any sentence form an oxymoron

  • FSFFSF Posts: 362 ✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:
    the whole point of a bar is that it trades near spot , narrow spreads are what you look for. If you choose to over pay for a plain lump of metal thinking its collectible its your right. Others will not make the same mistake.

    The words collectible and bar pushed together in any sentence form an oxymoron

    I wouldn't go that far. The gold bar in following link, which 1peter posted in the US Coin forum is pretty bad ass:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-100-1oz-Gold-Australian-Bullion-Dragon-Rectangular-Coin-Bar-9999/332942965826?hash=item4d84f27c42:g:USQAAOSwm5xcEBw9:rk:21:pf:0&LH_BIN=1

    I'm quite familiar with these as I looked into getting a few monster boxes last year of the silver so for those of you wanting one for a reasonable price, the silver bar is an option.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 6,965 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FSF said:

    @bronco2078 said:
    the whole point of a bar is that it trades near spot , narrow spreads are what you look for. If you choose to over pay for a plain lump of metal thinking its collectible its your right. Others will not make the same mistake.

    The words collectible and bar pushed together in any sentence form an oxymoron

    I wouldn't go that far. The gold bar in following link, which 1peter posted in the US Coin forum is pretty bad ass:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-100-1oz-Gold-Australian-Bullion-Dragon-Rectangular-Coin-Bar-9999/332942965826?hash=item4d84f27c42:g:USQAAOSwm5xcEBw9:rk:21:pf:0&LH_BIN=1

    I'm quite familiar with these as I looked into getting a few monster boxes last year of the silver so for those of you wanting one for a reasonable price, the silver bar is an option.

    if you want to drive nails with a wrench or drill holes with ski boot you can but why not use the proper tool for the job?

  • FSFFSF Posts: 362 ✭✭✭

    I suppose that would all depend on what the "job" was.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 29,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FSF said:

    @blitzdude said:
    Gold bars typically sell back of spot. Manufacture typically doesn't matter. I think the price is low due to astronomical numbers of counterfeits. Disclaimer: I haven't bought or sold may due to counterfeit issues but see it everyday.

    On top of this, liquidity can be a nightmare. I've never known a local B&M willing to make an offer on a gold bar.

    Not even a lowball offer?

  • FSFFSF Posts: 362 ✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @FSF said:

    @blitzdude said:
    Gold bars typically sell back of spot. Manufacture typically doesn't matter. I think the price is low due to astronomical numbers of counterfeits. Disclaimer: I haven't bought or sold may due to counterfeit issues but see it everyday.

    On top of this, liquidity can be a nightmare. I've never known a local B&M willing to make an offer on a gold bar.

    Not even a lowball offer?

    No. Their primary issues seem be authenticity and their unwillingness to take on the risk. A minor secondary issue seems to be liquidity. Most people seem to be asking for Eagles. The main bullion dealer I use would only offer 90% on a half oz gold Philharmonic that I recently sold to them. I'm not one to squeeze every last dollar out of a transaction for such a small amount.

    Beware of dealing in non-eagles, Buffaloes and Maples. Even places like APMEX can be an issue. Their buy prices are often times just a number that they put up stating that you have to sell a lot if you want that price. I've tested that in the past, disingenuously as I did not have the material to sell, and then of course I got the response that they had too many. When asked why they have a buy price, they said they sometimes don't have updated figures on their website.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 29,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FSF said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @FSF said:

    @blitzdude said:
    Gold bars typically sell back of spot. Manufacture typically doesn't matter. I think the price is low due to astronomical numbers of counterfeits. Disclaimer: I haven't bought or sold may due to counterfeit issues but see it everyday.

    On top of this, liquidity can be a nightmare. I've never known a local B&M willing to make an offer on a gold bar.

    Not even a lowball offer?

    No. Their primary issues seem be authenticity and their unwillingness to take on the risk. A minor secondary issue seems to be liquidity. Most people seem to be asking for Eagles. The main bullion dealer I use would only offer 90% on a half oz gold Philharmonic that I recently sold to them. I'm not one to squeeze every last dollar out of a transaction for such a small amount.

    Beware of dealing in non-eagles, Buffaloes and Maples. Even places like APMEX can be an issue. Their buy prices are often times just a number that they put up stating that you have to sell a lot if you want that price. I've tested that in the past, disingenuously as I did not have the material to sell, and then of course I got the response that they had too many. When asked why they have a buy price, they said they sometimes don't have updated figures on their website.

    Most of them have or should have PMVs so there's no excuse for getting stiffed on a gold bar or round. Even a counterfeit bar should still be an ounce of gold. Agree about the liquidity part, since I won't buy bars for the simple reason that they're hard to sell and make any money. I guess if you can afford to hold em until spot goes up enough to make it worthwhile, tho the same is largely true of AGEs, etc. You make your $$ on spot price going up. When I see buy prices posted at APMEX, I assume that they are buying.

  • FSFFSF Posts: 362 ✭✭✭

    Another recent experience for APMEX was when I was trying to sell them several Platinum Maples several months back. Their "buy price" was spot. I called to consummate a deal at the published price, and they quoted me $15 or $17 below spot, can't remember exactly. While I normally would have just accepted even though game playing is a huge turn off, since the metal had gone down about $100 in a short period of time, I decided to shop it around. Called JM Bullion a minute later, their offer was $20 over spot to which I accepted. They did charge I think $20 for the paper check that I requested. It would have been no fee if I was okay with them paying via an ACH credit but I'd rather not be giving out bank info where it's unnecessary.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 29,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I sold gold to APMEX once. Sent it registered on Tuesday and had a check in my mailbox on Saturday.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 6,965 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FSF said:
    I suppose that would all depend on what the "job" was.

    the job of stacking bullion requires not proposing marriage to it , i.e. not falling in love with it. Buy ugly at or near spot , sell same way. Avoid believing in pixie dust and unicorns and it works pretty well

    owning platinum is not going to end well for anyone , a shop has every reason to unbuy it . Some times you need to gently offend a potential seller to get rid of them and their terrible item :D

  • FSFFSF Posts: 362 ✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2019 10:18PM

    That may be your job. Others may want to add an element of collecting and variety to their purchases, even if it may not mean maximizing their financial returns. That shouldn't even be up for debate considering all of the various different form factors and designs that get produced during the course of even just one year.

    Also, I'm not sure who is paying near spot for ugly generic bullion. You need to share your secrets with us. I've bought and sold dozens of times throughout my life at shows, B&Ms, large dealer websites, ebay, etc. so I understand the playing field pretty well.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 36,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2019 2:33AM

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    Even a counterfeit bar should still be an ounce of gold.

    Where's the profit in making counterfeit gold bars with the full weight of gold? Usually a counterfeit gold bar is gold plated base metal such as brass.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 6,965 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2019 5:11AM

    @FSF said:
    That shouldn't even be up for debate considering all of the various different form factors and designs that get produced during the course of even just one year.

    This is evidence of desperation and exploitation of buyers.

    Buyers are loony too obviously , theres nothing rare or valuble about a brand new bar. They melted a doggie bar to make a snake bar, its the same unwanted oz of gold

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 29,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2019 10:18AM

    @PerryHall said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    Even a counterfeit bar should still be an ounce of gold.

    Where's the profit in making counterfeit gold bars with the full weight of gold? Usually a counterfeit gold bar is gold plated base metal such as brass.

    I refer to the plated ones as fake as opposed to counterfeit, but you're right about the profit motive. Depends of course on your basis in the gold which if stolen would be near $0.00

    I didn't intend to imply that all counterfeit bars were mostly gold in composition.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 36,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    Even a counterfeit bar should still be an ounce of gold.

    Where's the profit in making counterfeit gold bars with the full weight of gold? Usually a counterfeit gold bar is gold plated base metal such as brass.

    I refer to the plated ones as fake as opposed to counterfeit, but you're right about the profit motive. Depends of course on your basis in the gold which if stolen would be near $0.00

    I consider "fake" and "counterfeit" to be synonymous terms.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 29,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The biggest impediment besides the low margins is lack of a convenient venue in which to trade.

  • rickoricko Posts: 64,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold bars are difficult to sell, and for the obvious reason that many are fake. I stick to U.S. gold coins for my stacking... I do have some silver art bars, but I purchased them because I liked them, not as an investment. Though I would agree, silver bars can be moved more quickly when prices rise.... I guess the perceived risk is lower. Cheers, RickO

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 22,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    Gold bars are difficult to sell,

    agreement

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 29,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:

    @ricko said:
    Gold bars are difficult to sell,

    agreement

    Well there are plenty of em out there gettin traded.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 6,965 ✭✭✭✭✭

    people that think bars are collectible are bringing stackers mean IQ down to the room temperature range

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