1973-S Ike weight 20g

Any suggestions as to why this Ike 1973-S only weighs 20 grams? Based on the rim and mint, it should be silver, but silver Ike’s weigh 24 grams and it doesn’t have the thickness of other “S” silver Ike’s either.

Comments

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    did you zero the scale? it could be a CuNi proof (but would still be a little light).

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 8,511 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Scale calibrated? Have you weighed other Ikes on that scale?

    Specs:

    Diameter: 38.50 millimeters
    Weight: 24.60 grams
    Edge: Reeded
    Metal Content:
    Outer layers - 80% Silver, 20% Copper; Center - 79% Copper, 21% Silver

  • AdyAdy Posts: 14

    Yes, my 1971, 72 and 74 “s” weigh between 24-25 grams

  • AdyAdy Posts: 14

    My other CuNi Proofs weigh 22 grams...

  • AdyAdy Posts: 14

    Scale calibrated at zero before placing the coins and this one 1973-S Ike I’ve weighed various times and always comes up at 20 grams. Would PCGS be able to identify the layer content if sent in for grading?

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where did you get it? I once pulled a 1973-S out of a brown box, and it was a little under 22g.

    Could yours be a counterfeit? the FG designer initials look off.

    Thin planchett error would also give light weight (usually slightly tapered at end of roll).

  • JBKJBK Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The edge of that coin looks odd, but then again I have never scrutinized a proof Ike edge. Both versions are clad and should have visible layers, but maybe on the silver ones it is harder to see.

  • BlindedByEgoBlindedByEgo Posts: 10,750 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hopefully @FredWeinberg will pitch in. Thanks for posting!

  • AdyAdy Posts: 14

    I inherited from my dad. He was a life long coin collector and he had it in Dansco album. I guess it could be counterfeit but really have no idea. Here’s a better picture of the FG compared to a 1972-S FG. Any more thoughts???

  • georgiacop50georgiacop50 Posts: 2,905 ✭✭✭✭

    I am not allowed to comment on this per THE RULES

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How so?

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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    One possibility... one of the 80% silver clad layers split off after the blank was punched out of the strip, exposing the 21% silver core, which would still have a silver color. Each clad layer is 1/6th the thickness of the coin, so take away 1/6th of 24.6 grams and that would leave you about 20 grams.
    TD

    Anybody? Class? Bueller?

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  • rickoricko Posts: 70,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway ...Your explanation is certainly reasonable... and the only other thought I had was perhaps either a wrong planchet (no idea if any other similar coins were being minted at that time) or counterfeit. Cheers, RickO

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 4,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There's nothing I can see in the photos posted
    that says it's on a thinner planchet, or one with
    the outer clad layer missing.

    The photos aren't the best, but it could be just
    a slightly rolled thin planchet, or ?

    Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV.
    Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 42 +-Year PNG Member, and an ICTA Board Member.A full time coin dealer since 1972.
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    One possibility... one of the 80% silver clad layers split off after the blank was punched out of the strip, exposing the 21% silver core, which would still have a silver color. Each clad layer is 1/6th the thickness of the coin, so take away 1/6th of 24.6 grams and that would leave you about 20 grams.
    TD

    Looking at the pictures, I wonder if the reverse split after striking ... a better picture of the reverse is needed, it is somewhat blurry now.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is this normal? Looks like a very strange "G" and "O" to me.

    Sorry about diverting the subject.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon


  • @davewesen said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    One possibility... one of the 80% silver clad layers split off after the blank was punched out of the strip, exposing the 21% silver core, which would still have a silver color. Each clad layer is 1/6th the thickness of the coin, so take away 1/6th of 24.6 grams and that would leave you about 20 grams.
    TD

    Looking at the pictures, I wonder if the reverse split after striking ... a better picture of the reverse is needed, it is somewhat blurry now.

    I’m sending you three more pictures. Hope it comes out okay.

  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 770 ✭✭✭✭

    Does look a little thin.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am leaning towards suggesting that you send it in to PCGS as an error coin and put "planchet layer split off before strike" on the submission form so that it gets routed to Fred Weinberg.

    What do you all think?

    TD

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  • It is thinner than all the other silver Ike’s. Wish I had taken pictures side by side before sending in to be graded. I did mark it as mint error possible planchette or alloy error. I’ll let you all know how it comes back. Thank you for all your help!!!

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    I am leaning towards suggesting that you send it in to PCGS as an error coin and put "planchet layer split off before strike" on the submission form so that it gets routed to Fred Weinberg.

    What do you all think?

    TD

    I don't think it is worth $100 to find out, but agree with you or just tapered end thin planchet.

    The reverse pictures do look fully struck, much better pics.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019 11:37AM

    Thx for posting the results!

    Very interesting.

    I have no idea on value but you got the "too thin" designation, and it is a proof coin, so maybe it was not a total loss. :p

    In any case, you got one of your father's coins into a slab with a special designation, which is nice.

    My guess is that if there is no copper visible then the top layer (relative to when the blank was punched from the strip) "stretched" or "dragged" down over the copper core when the planchet was punched out.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on FW's assessment I'd say you did well.

    It is great when a random oddball coin actually turns out to be a real and unusual error!

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Okay, we have a problem here. 18% light means 82% of 22.68 grams = 18.5976 grams, not 20 grams. Call it 18.6 grams.

    FWIW, using struck coin diameters for the math (Type One blanks would be better, but I do not have a diameter for a Type One blank half dollar) the area of a dollar is 1.54925 that of a half dollar. If you multiply that factor times the weight of a clad half dollar, the expected weight of a dollar punched from clad half dollar stock would be 17.568 grams.

    Fred, I think we could make a case for this being a Proof dollar struck on clad half dollar stock. I did not suggest this before because the OP had said it was 40% silver, and there were no 40% silver halves struck before August, 1974.

    Please check the PCGS records and see if you can get an exact weight rather than just "18% thin."

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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unless it IS 40% silver "clad" and they mean 82% of 24.59 grams which would be 20.1638 grams!

    FRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  • JBKJBK Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019 1:04PM

    I take "18% thin" to be a matter of thickness, not weight.

    Wrong strip, rolled too thin, or whatever other means....

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great result!

    Collector, occasional seller

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 4,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 18% means it's light in weight by 18%.

    As far as calling it on Half Dollar Stock, in
    general, with a few well-known examples
    of wrong stock errors (such as the common
    1970-D Quarter on Dime Stock Thickness,
    and some thick dimes in the 1960's), PCGS
    and NGC call the vast majority of them
    rolled thick or rolled thin.

    Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV.
    Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 42 +-Year PNG Member, and an ICTA Board Member.A full time coin dealer since 1972.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So is it 40% silver "clad" or Cu-Ni Cu "clad?"

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  • segojasegoja Posts: 5,998 ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting error

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
  • BlindedByEgoBlindedByEgo Posts: 10,750 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fascinating, Captain.

    Looks like certification created as many questions as it answered :)

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can the submitter request the weight from PCGS? They must have checked it if they calculated it was 18% thin.

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  • JBKJBK Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There could be many more out there, locked up unnoticed in proof set plastic.

  • @CaptHenway said:
    Unless it IS 40% silver "clad" and they mean 82% of 24.59 grams which would be 20.1638 grams!

    FRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    @CaptHenway said:
    Okay, we have a problem here. 18% light means 82% of 22.68 grams = 18.5976 grams, not 20 grams. Call it 18.6 grams.

    >

    Please check the PCGS records and see if you can get an exact weight rather than just "18% thin."

    I had assumed it was silver because tones on the coin are more in line with my silver Ike’s than my clad Ike’s (and yes my dad did have it in the 1973-S 40% silver slot in his album) but the light weight certainly threw me for a loop. Based on the PCGS grading....that means there is no silver content right? But could it actually be 40% silver “clad” ???? I’m also curious what the actual weight was found to be on this coin by PCGS. The mystery continues...🤔😁

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If your 20 gram weight is correct, then it must be 82% of the 40% silver standard weight. I think 40% needs to be on the label.

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  • @CaptHenway said:
    If your 20 gram weight is correct, then it must be 82% of the 40% silver standard weight. I think 40% needs to be on the label.

    I was thinking the same...

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Contact Customer Service and nicely tell them there is a mistake on your label and will they please correct it and reimburse you your return postage?

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