So how many rare coins were turned to bullion?
ttown
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Always wondered. There is 4 ounces worth of coin silver. Funny this is a hobby that you make more by selling the parts vs the whole watch. So few watches are original but what other hobby has someone in the past put a rare dial worth hundreds on a 100 dollar watch. On the watch board the he question is how many original coin silver case were destroyed from the last two spikes over $50? A bunch i can assure you😡
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Very few US coins are "rare" so the percentage of truly "rare" coins melted was probably close to zero. Getting common coins off the market for good is actually a positive for the hobby. Keep those melting pots going!
Maybe, but these were made in the 19th century for the most part before any of the coins were rare. I'd argue that's why many coins are as rare they are from the melts of the 19th and 20th century. You must consider at the time a watch was a scientific instrument that could cost the average man a years wage. Railroad watches had to be serviced often must retain a timing of not losing over 7 seconds a week. Ball started this standard in 1893 when 2 trains meet head on when a conductors watch lost time. It had to maintain the standard in all 6 positions. Quite a feat for a mechanical movement 😀
"Coin silver" need not have come from actual coins. In fact, since about 1875, it would typically have been much cheaper to use new bullion and then add sufficient copper to get the correct percentage. The face value of the coins was usually rather higher than the intrinsic value, and melting coins would have involved the melter in a substantial loss.
Watches are mostly dross, the pocket watches in my Dad's estate were all worth much less than what he paid.
What do you define as "rare?" According to Dr. Sheldon, R-5 (31 to 75) is "rare," and the rarity scale goes higher from there.
"Rare" by my definition is a coin that can't necessarily be found even if the money to buy it is readily available. Modern "condition rarities" are not included in my definition of "rare" since I feel the pursuit of such minute variations in grade is a bad idea. I'll leave those for the registry set people to fight over.
Very few coins fall into the R-5 category in the overall scheme of things
One of the factors that has made some “rare” coins seem more common than they are is the Internet. Today you can do an Internet search or use the search function that our hosts provide to us, and find a wide range of coins that would have been much harder to find in the “old days.”
Back then getting the word out that you had a tough date or rare piece took a lot more effort. You could run ads in “Coin World,” “COINage,” “Coins,” “Numismatic News,” or “Numismatic Scrapbook,” but that required a long lead time. Usually you advertised common coins which allowed you to satisfy multiple customers with your duplicates. Dealers were reluctant to lay out the money for a really rare and expensive piece because they didn’t know how long they might have their working capital tied up in it. Most dealers could not afford to be like Catherine Bullowa who had amazing material in her safe that she had had in inventory for years.
Aside from private placements with big collectors like Eliasberg, the main place to buy rare coins was in the big auctions, but even there the technology was primitive. There was no “Heritage Live.” Book bids were made before the auction in person or sent in by “snail mail.” Most of the bidding action was in the auction room with a few big players on the telephone.
The auctions were smaller then. I remember that I bought an 1857 large cent in EF (today’s AU) condition for $55 in a live Stacks auction in New York City in the early 1970s. You would see that happen today.
Unless you are referring to die varieties of early coins which was Sheldon’s area of interest. Even so, a lot of those rarities have come down after more collectors used the book, and EAC was formed.
The melts we experience every few decades result in some lost cultural treasures (hand wrought Martele silver, Revolutionary era utensils) but thankfully it also gets damaged pieces and common junk off the market. Imagine all the cleaned, graffitied, worn, slick, culled garbage that has been removed from the market!
He who knows he has enough is rich.
BillD , yes your dad's 20th century 12 size dress watches were massed produced with low to no jewels so they could lose a several minutes a week. No demand except for a parts watch.
Hard to lose to much on a $50 to $100 watch. Mine are 14k gold cases and I haven't lost any money, it's like the coin hobby buy the books/research or buy for the joy of wearing or collecting.
Collectors buy 16s to 18s watches. I just happened to be oiling the pivots and staff to give that 2 star watch to my son (rare😜) If you don't think so find me another😋 It takes under 2000 people to Conor the market on railroads like this. Those CPR's are usually sold collect to collector and rarely come to auctions like EBay or an auction house unless it's a big collection. Man that's one beautiful Beaver, real factory mark movements are very rare compared to other railroads.
To shaky any more to work on them😰 to much except my $100 watches.
Here's some stuff worth it weight in gold. This is like having a junk yard full of classic mustangs
In 1980, the old timer dealer near me said it was coming in so fast, no one even looked at the dates. He helped haul truckloads off to the melters and was no chance anyone was sifting through them. I have no doubt at all that some treasures were lost during that time.
I don't know the answer, but clearly some things of value were lost. In the big '79/'80 run up my dad bought some pretty nice things from guys who were about to scrap them out. This included a no-motto seated dollar and an 1809 O-109a bust half both in original choice AU. While they're both desireable coins neither is actually rare -- but the fact that they were in the melt pile at all suggests that nobody was paying much attention, so I'm sure there were losses much more significant than those would have been.
Who owned the coin, and what was the economic state at the time of the sale?
Lots of things to consider here...………………...
"overweight" to world metal price US coins: Minted, Exported, Melted
"overweight" to world metal price US coins: Minted, Circulated, pulled by banks, etc, returned to mint, melted.
"obsolete" US coins: Banks retained, returned to mint, Melted.
"Worn, Damaged" US coins: Banks retained, returned to mint, Melted.
Pitman Act: Under the Act, 270,232,722 standard silver dollars were converted into bullion
All this before the 2 monster runs ups to $50, and the mass meltings.
Yes, there are 584 trillion metric tons of DRECK that is advertised as RARE RARE RARE hawked on TV, and piled to the ceilings at coins shows, dead dealer inventory, etc.
We need a round of $100 silver to cull the herd again.
A dealer I know in Texas had amassed 1/4 of ALL the mintage of a proof coin from a south of the border country. The last time silver marched to $50, he agonized, and finally sent it all in, as he was not going to buried in over priced virtually non saleable inventory.
Other than greed, why do dealers resell "junk" silver, instead of permanently removing it from the coin spectrum. The know it is junk, the buyers will ultimately lose out, the coins will come back, lather rinse repeat. Instead, just melt it and sell it as xx ounce bars.