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Feuchtwanger experts: speak.
lordmarcovan
Posts: 43,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
Not my coin. Not yet, anyway.
Like it, though. Thinking about it.
6
lordmarcovan
Posts: 43,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
lordmarcovan
Posts: 43,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
lordmarcovan
Posts: 43,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
No hole?
Had one with a hole, back in my Holey Coin Vest days (which ended a decade ago).
Can't recall if I ever owned an unholed one before or since. Maybe a VG-ish example.
My opinion would be to pass.. the scratches between the beak and feet would bother me.. unless they are on the slab..
Is that a $150-200 coin? I do not know.. just a guess
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
Pass It has some major active green growth under the body behind the leg.
Denticles retooled over rim damage at 5 o’clock?
Pin scratches atop the word ONE and CENT.
All that black crust in the wing details is environmental damage.
agree.. the scratches and the green stuff bother me too.
Not expert in any way, but I feel vertigris is awaiting the next owner. Pass.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Those are hairlines on the surface of the cent.
Consensus seems it is Feucht up.
Too many issues on a token that can be found in decent shape.
I like it for german silver ... those other guys are too picky
Was going to say something similar. In general, these things look pretty rough, and are taken into account in the grade and price. The green "stuff" is the only thing that would probably concern me.
Wouldn't hurt to keep looking around. These aren't particularly "rare".
I have had this one a long time.
I realize it's old German silver, but the scratches and the green patch give me pause...
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The green can be "fixed" the scratches cannot. If that coin is not detailed...
Without the scratches on the rev. and the green removed it's a fine example.
I’m mostly known for my Indian cent expertise but I’d say it’s a good looking coin if the price is right. Nice even color.
Time flies. I still remember that thread.
The coin is in a PCGS XF45 holder. Straight graded.
Thank y'all for the input and keen eyesight. I totally missed the greenish deposit on the eagle's undercarriage.
I would be most concerned about the scratches on the reverse. The at the top, between the break in the wreath is the most distracting. Also there is a lot of copper-nickel spot corrosion on this piece, represented by the black and green spotting. These tokens are not that rare and pricey. I think that you could find another one that is a bit nicer for the grade.
Here is the one that has been my collection for a long time. I won another one for an exhibit I did at the FUN show a few years ago.
The recut denticles at 5 o'clock do not bother you?
WOW!
I didn't notice them.
Nor, apparently, did the TPG. I did mention it up above.
Should this token be put to death?
Geez, I've seen Chinese counterfeits take less heat.
PCGS actually has been grading these longer than all other exonumia.
So seeing this in a non details holder is a real shame.
You folks are being wayyyyy to hard on this coin. It is a crusty example of a variety 3-E, feuchtwanger, and one of the earlier die states of the 3-E that I have seen. Not that makes it any more valuable, since the 3-E is pretty common. I would have guessed EF-40. I agree with the $150-$200 estimate. What you see on the rim at 5 o'clock is indicative of the 3 and 4 obverses and is actually an identifier for the downright scarce 3-d variety.
Having said that, while the obverse hairlines don't bother me much, the reverse ones do as does the gunk at the center of the obverse.
These are not that tough to find nicer, as some of the posted pics indicate. Bill's is particularly nice (variety 5-G), though it is even more common than the op's soon-to-be (?) coin. So, unless you want to work on this one, I too would pass, unless it was a $100 coin.
edited to address the later scarce 3-D variety.
Tom
I remember at the place I did community service for school at a collectables shop, the shop owner had many stacks of feuchtwangers
A "scratch" is more severe than a "hairline!" The two on the reverse are not random. That is the only thing that kills a very attractive coin. When it comes time to sell, that is the second thing the buyer is going to point out to get the price lowered.
A "coin doctor" would remove the green corrosion and go to his capsule of black crud (collected from other coins over time) and use it to fill in the scratches on the reverse. That's why a careful examination of coins is a habit we all should get into. I don't see any problem with the rims.
The TPGS graders must walk a fine line when grading objects almost two hundred years old! Looks like I landed on the tough side of this one.
I stand corrected as those are scratches on the reverse.
Tom
Could you please show that odd rim at 5o’clock on another specimen from these dies?
I knew you would ask that so I was looking for it as I posted the 3-d previously. Unfortunately, I'm out of town. I'll post when I return to town. In the meantime, if you google "feuchtwanger 3-D" you may find one on-line. The 3-D is scarce and generally goes for 4 or 5 k in xf. The Bowers specimen was overgraded as an NGC 53 and sold for $6900. I have posted photos of them before on this site, but I cannot seem to find them.
Tom
Here is an article on attribution and die marriages
novanumismatics.com/feuchtwangers-composition-cent-attribution-die-marriages-2/
I saw that. I meant I didn't notice them before.
As in this:
https://www.apmex.com/product/40551/1837-hard-times-token-feuchtwanger-cent-xf-ht-268-3b
I stand corrected. I have never seen one of these with the rim like that.
I liked the contrasting crustiness of the coin, and the color.
Didn't notice the deposit. I noticed the rim irregularity but it didn't claim much of my attention and as such no, it wouldn't have particularly bothered me.
I noticed the hairline scratches. The obverse didn't bother me. The reverse ones were in my view the biggest negative attribute the coin had.
I still find the coin attractive despite the comments here, but will not be buying it. You see, it is somewhat stiffly priced vis-a-vis auction records for PCGS XF45 examples (in the ballpark, but at the high end of it).
I emailed the seller yesterday to inquire about price flexibility, but given the comments here and the fact I haven't heard back from the seller, I reckon I'll pass.
If y'all had loved it, I might have pursued it. I still think it handsome for the contrast.
I made offers on an ancient and a medieval bracteate instead.
Exactly. Every scarce 3-D variety I have seen had this quality. Someone, Broadstruck, I believe, once listed all 3-Ds sold...about 7 or 8 of them. I think that the D reverse was used after the E reverse, so that die marker is even more extreme. But I have seen it on some 3-Es. A lso, I believe that your linked coin is not a 3-B..it's also a 3-E.
So, what is this caused by? On the 3-Ds I have seen, the die is not eroded or failing. It looks like it is "crushed" or something.
Tom
BTW, the top image in the OP is from the cert page. No TrueView style background. Just white. A CoinFacts image then, I gather?