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Buffalo nickel - matching die pairs

ponderitponderit Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

I'm curious if anyone else seeks out matching die pairs. Based on die cracks, rotation, etc, I enjoy doing this with my Buff Nicks, Is it just me or do others have interest? I equate it to seeking out Morgan VAMs, which I enjoy as well.
Bill

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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is quite interesting work to examine that area. Don't forget that it is often a die characteristic that determines authenticity.

    Your work in this area may in the future become a PUP for some as yet unknown variety.

    I welcome your research!

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,322 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail

    Which is the best authority on Buffalo Nickel Die Pair Identifications?
    jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jesbroken said:
    @BuffaloIronTail

    Which is the best authority on Buffalo Nickel Die Pair Identifications?
    jim

    Don't know of anyone specific, but the OP is trying to document them.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    ponderitponderit Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At this point I only own 1 pair of Buffalos that are exact twins, 13-D's, both PCGS, a 63 and a 64. I've owned these for sometime, bought in 2011 and 2015. I didn't make the connection until I had both of them for a little while. The only difference in the die cracks is that on one they're a bit deeper and more pronounced due I presume to a later strike. What sparked this question is that this morning on Ebay I came across yet another 13-D which is the same die set that struck a third 13-D that I own, no relation to the twins.

    I find these type of things interesting in our hobby and I'm curious if anyone else does. My photog skills suck but if interested I've taken 4 pics of each coin with my cell and I can post them. Still trying to decide if I'm going to jump on the Ebay listing just to have another matching set.

    Bill

    Successful BST transactions with Rob41281, crazyhounddog, Commoncents, CarlWohlford, blu62vette, Manofcoins, Monstarcoins, coinlietenant, iconbuster, RWW,Nolawyer, NewParadigm, Flatwoods, papabear, Yellowkid, Ankur, Pccoins, tlake22, drddm, Connecticoin, Cladiator, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty
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    koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That will be an interesting and valuable thing to do but it will be quite of an undertaking. I certainly encourage you, tho.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This could result in a book on Buffalo Nickle Die Characteristics...Good luck with your research and let us know if you publish. Cheers, RickO

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    ponderitponderit Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019 9:30PM

    Thanks Ricko, I can't see a book in my future but here are 4 examples of what I've found in the 13-D Type 1. I'm calling this Matched Die Set 1, 13-d. I now own 4 of these coins and I've matched other die pairs through auction pics with Buffs that I own. Something new and interesting to me. By the way, thanks to John B. for the great pics...
    Notice: Obv: y-shaped die crack in the L / Rev: Die Crack east of the horn tip, Die Crack under UNUM, Matching die cracks through FIVE CENTS... these all match and there are progressive die states evident.



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    ponderitponderit Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭✭✭








    Successful BST transactions with Rob41281, crazyhounddog, Commoncents, CarlWohlford, blu62vette, Manofcoins, Monstarcoins, coinlietenant, iconbuster, RWW,Nolawyer, NewParadigm, Flatwoods, papabear, Yellowkid, Ankur, Pccoins, tlake22, drddm, Connecticoin, Cladiator, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty
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    yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019 10:18PM

    I think you meant to write "die crack west of horn tip".
    There also appears to be a die crack from the rim to the lower part of the tail.
    The line under UNUM might be from a clash with the chin, instead of a crack.

    I have researched die pairs on 1866 3 cent nickels, also based on die cracks.
    There was quite a large number of dies (I recall around 50), so trying to collect them all could be quite difficult.
    But there was one pair which produced quite a large number of coins.
    Some attribution books focus on RPDs that can be very hard to see, while die cracks are often easily visible.

    I tried initially on the 1865 3 cent nickel, but there were so many different dies that it was quite hard to find 2 that matched!

    I imagine on most buffalo nickels that the number of dies was quite large, so it could be quite hard to find matches.
    How long have you been looking?

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    koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes-the irregularity thru EPU is a die clash. It's the junction of the chin and neck on the obverse. It's counterpart is the EPU clash sometimes seen on the obverse in front of the neck and immediately below the jaw. Die rotation can change the location of these clashes to a moderate degree.

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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I really enjoy this type of variety and error study. Thanks.

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    ponderitponderit Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the correction / clarification. yosclimber, in answer to your question, I had one of these for several years. A couple of years ago I bought the second on EB but didn't suspect it was a match until I had it in hand due to lousy pics on the auction (I just bought the coin because I liked it) That sparked the interest and was about 5 years ago. The other 2 I found within a week of each other and that's what prompted this thread.

    These all have an approximate 15 degree counterclockwise rotation as well.

    Successful BST transactions with Rob41281, crazyhounddog, Commoncents, CarlWohlford, blu62vette, Manofcoins, Monstarcoins, coinlietenant, iconbuster, RWW,Nolawyer, NewParadigm, Flatwoods, papabear, Yellowkid, Ankur, Pccoins, tlake22, drddm, Connecticoin, Cladiator, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty
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    crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,817 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is as cool as the underside of my pillow B) I agree this is a VERY interesting idea and a large task but a rewarding one too. I admire your passion with the greatest series ever produced from the US mint, the mighty buffalo nickels👍🏻
    Me likie😊😊

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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    FullHornFullHorn Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2021 3:30PM

    Searching for some 13 D type one info and found this thread. I have a match! PCGS MS65

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    ponderitponderit Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hi FullHorn, I've been away from coins for quite sometime due to family illness and I just revisited a post I created in 2018 about matching die pairs on 1913-D buffs and I saw your post, the last post of the thread actually. Your buffalo is definitely from the same gene pool as the ones I have! Yours is BEAUTIFUL to say the least. Thanks for sharing.

    Things have settled down here and I'm back up and active perusing the boards (I didn't realize how much I'd been missing coins, the shows and the CU banter).

    I wanted to post a thank you here and see if anyone out there who may have missed this thread can fine any other matches,,, , very cool that you were able to find a match.

    Thanks again,
    Bill

    Successful BST transactions with Rob41281, crazyhounddog, Commoncents, CarlWohlford, blu62vette, Manofcoins, Monstarcoins, coinlietenant, iconbuster, RWW,Nolawyer, NewParadigm, Flatwoods, papabear, Yellowkid, Ankur, Pccoins, tlake22, drddm, Connecticoin, Cladiator, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty
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    FullHornFullHorn Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I started reading from the top and it started to seem familiar. LOL.

    The good thing about the coin hobby is you can always jump back in and everything is pretty much the same.

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