Are winners decided in advance in NFL games? (Cheating by Refs and/or the League)
WingedLiberty1957
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So I am not one to jump on board with conspiracy theories in general. But for over a decade, by watching almost every NFL game offered up on TV, that at least in some games, game winners appear to be decided on in advance through systematic bad or controversial calls by referees that seem to favor one team.
I am not an Eagles but case in point was last weeks Eagles-Cowboys game where on the opening kickoff the ref's "decided" that it was unclear who recovered a kickoff fumble. Even though it was obvious the Eagles had recovered.
Later in the same game the Eagles Tight End ran for a go ahead TD, but the ref's called offensive pass interference, (which clearly did not happen). TD called back and the Eagles lost.
I know in some redskins games this year, it seemed like call after call went against the redskins (the redskins were called for 160 yards in penalties that game) -- then late in the game on a critical 4th down play when Jordan Reed was thrown the ball near the goal line, an obvious helmet to helmet hit occurred on the Redskins tight end. It was so obvious and all eyes should have been on him. Even the TV announcers said it was obvious and they were shocked it wasnt called. Ref's made a No Call. Redskins lost.
Ive seen this over and over. I remember 10 years ago in a Seattle-SanFrancisco playoff game this was so bad (refs so obviously one sided) that someone made a YouTube Video outlining all the bad calls that went against SF and for Seattle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BU7tt3yR24&t=495s
I just wonder, couldnt the ref's be directing teams wins so they (or friends of theirs) could be making winning gambling bets? Or could the league be favoring certain teams trying to manipulate an especially good matchup in the playoffs or superbowl to get higher rating (after all that's billions of dollars at stake -- and we all know how money corrupts everything (just look at our politics).
With all the cheating going on in our society today (I just read 2 catholic nuns embezzled 1/2 million dollars from a catholic school and they would go to vegas to gamble)
If nuns are cheating, it wouldnt surprise me to see NFL refs or the league cheating. (And how about all the Catholic Priests and what they are doing???)
Finally I remember back in the 1980's when the Redskins were in their Superbowl winning heyday -- It seemed like every close call went in the Redskins favor. Obviously, I liked that being a Skins fan, but clearly the Redskins were being favored by the Refs and/or the League to win a lot of games. I would have rather seen a fair game being called.
I realize the odds of this being true is probably small, but geez in game after game it seems like most of or almost all any close call goes in favor of the same team (without a balance between the two teams). It does seems like -- at least from a lay perspective -- that one team was chosen to win the game in advance (or at least given opportunity after opportunity to win the game)
Thoughts on this?
Comments
I know last night the refs missed a helmet to helmet on a sliding Rivers and the very next play they made up for it with a gift Pass Inteference call. Refs have the human element involved so they will make mistakes. I don’t think they script winners before the game is over really though
I will not stick my neck out and say yes. Remarkable though that intelligent folks that are suspicious of their business partner, government, car dealer, insurance agent, spouse and they always cut the deck when playing poker, well they put on the stupid hat and will opine that pro sports cannot be rigged as the money is too immense.
They may be wrong.
my father-in-law was a Steelers fan. in his world, everything that went against his Team was rigged but he never said a word when called went Pittsburgh's way. that, in a nutshell, is human nature.
it would be hard to argue that the "calls" in any game tend to favor the better Teams. logically, they should since those Teams are better at playing and better coached. however, my dad always said that the Ref's could call holding on every play and watching some games it seems like they do. for myself, I enjoy watching Football but the rules are so vanilla that pretty much every play has a violation of something that either does or doesn't get called.
how many times do the announcers say "contact was made but the Officials decided to let them play" and it affects the game outcome?? that's where human bias enters the equation, and the top Teams are the ones who tend to benefit.
I dont mind the refs missing a call or making a mistake as long as its balanced ..., but whats bothersome is when call after call after call goes against the same team in what appears a concerted effort to direct the ourcome of a game.
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I don't think games are rigged, but I do think zebra incompetency is nearing (or at) an all-time high. Just seems like the officiating has been an abomination in many instances this season. But, in their defense, it can't be easy being an NFL ref in the year 2018.
First off, bigger.......faster......stronger than ever before. We are always blessed to be able to slow plays down via replay in order to see exactly what happened. Imagine having to make instantaneous call after instantaneous call when two (or more) dudes going 20+ mph collide like rams in real time?
Second, the NFL hasn't exactly done them any favors. The rules have, in essence, changed midway through the season. Remember the first few weeks when guys were making perfect form tackles, yet were being flagged 15 for -- of all things -- excessive body weight on the QB? When's the last time anyone saw one of those "infractions"? The league has wised up since then, but how can you effectively ensure that rules are being adhered to when they practically change week-by-week?
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
who would be behind this? the team owners? The league? I really dont think so. there is too much money to loose. if the population at large truly believed that the outcome was "scripted" both television and attendance would plummet. then ad revenue would do the same. then television contracts would go away. people would stop buying jerseys, posters, bobble heads, team logo lamp shades etc.
see the giant snowball effect if the "sanctity" of play were seriously cast in doubt? for many many if not most things in life, follow the money. there is SO much more money to be made if the games are truly not rigged. this is the whole reason Pete Rose is still not in the hall of fame.
could there be a rouge official? sure. But as far as an over reaching conspiracy to script game outcomes? nope, too much money at stake.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Interesting call in Vikings/Seahawks game, never seen this before; Seahawks player hurdles line and blocks field goal, is flagged for using another player to assist him in his leap, personal foul. You can hear ref say; "result of the play, first down".
Replay shows Seahawks player pushed off on two Seahawk lineman to jump over line. Announcers said "that's a penalty, you can't do that".
Back from commercial and Seahawks have the ball! Announcer says shortly thereafter that the hurdling (or whatever) call is a judgement call by the officials. Later it was said that actually it is not.
Game was 6-0 at that point. If penalty is assessed, Vikings have ball on Seahawks 14 yard line. Vikes hadn't been moving the ball AT ALL up to this point, but defense had kept them in game.
Seahawks then scored TD and basically put game away.
Earlier in game Seahawks player had tackled Viking RB by facemask and no call. Don't see how you can miss that.
"Let's all root for the home team, if they don't win it's a shame"?
Tell that to Belichick and Brady.
you think that Belichick and Brady are paying off Referees? Proof?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
No, I think that the money attracts skullduggery, not repeals it.
then why did you bring up Brady and Belichick? that is just Lazy
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Because nobody wins more than them.
so, you must think that illegal gamblers/the mob are fixing games for gambling winnings? you really think the amount of money they could put up would be a temptation for a team or the league? the BILLIONS of dollars the league and teams make by ensuring the integrity of the game FAR outweighs that . In fact, I am sure the league keeps pretty close attention as to who is officiating their games to ensure the integrity is there. It all falls apart if it isnt, and there is way too much money at stake for that to happen.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I am sure there are players/coaches who want to win just as much, they are just not as good.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
conspiracy theory thinking is a phenomenon that i find intriguing and strange. it points to a paranoid mind. how else would we have the faked Moon Landing, Area 54 aliens, the Kennedy assassination, chem-trails and loads of other things?? guys like Alex Jones that got booted off media after making a fortune really help perpetuate this stuff. there are quite a number of people who get sucked in.
probably the granddaddy of all threads here was the Moon Landing Conspiracy. that tells me all i need to know.
Too bad Steph Curry didn't weigh in on that one.
we had a moon landing conspiracy theory tread? oh my gosh, that must have been before my time.
is there a link? I tried a search, but couldnt find it. that would be a fun read i am sure
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Kyrie Irving thinks the earth is flat , Wouldn't that make the moon flat also? It appears to be round
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm
Anything is possible with the refs. I recall there was a major scandal in the NBA with a ref cheating some years ago. But I think the main focus about cheating should be on the players. Frankly, the players who have been caught cheating over the years as far as game fixing, is probably the tip of the iceberg.
The bottom line is anything that involves lots of money, can induce cheating. With the legalization of sports gambling in the US and the money pools getting larger, then the cheating is going to increase as well...it's inevitable.
In Europe where the sports gambling money pools are huge, fixing soccer games is almost like clockwork. I hope that doesn't happen here, but sadly it might.
It is a house of cards. there may be lots of money in gambling, but if the integrity of the game is brought into serious doubt, those dollars will go away. If the general population of gamblers believed the games were fixed, there would be about as much action on NFL games as there is on WWE.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Have you ever been to a game? The average fan is dumber than a sack of doorknobs. I mean these people buy beers for over 10 bucks apiece without batting an eye. We are talking epic morons gathering in the tens of thousands every sunday, the ones watching at sports bars are even stupider. Those of us sitting at home watching on free tv are not about to cure cancer either .
You could show video evidence to a fan of his team cheating and he wouldn't believe it and he would get angry at you for challenging his faith in the team. Morons and idiots , we have both kinds of sports fan
People love the WWE craig
most of our fan response to this is due to a simple fact --- there are seven possibly out of position Ref's calling things in "real" time, we watch things slowed and stopped from every angle possible.
people do love the WWE, they just dont bet on it.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think this has a lot to do with it. then we listen to sports radio all week and listen to those guys fill air time with complaining about calls.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
History of cheating. Don't know if the money is an incentive to them, but not a disincentive. To expand the argument regarding potentially paid off refs, they are in the $300,000 income range, not the $30,000,000.
Tennis has had some recent game fixing scandals as well.
It's "funny" in a sick way that many horse racing handicappers who bet on harness racing, actually handicap not only the horse's past performances, but also the cheating possibility in various races depending on certain factors.
They would if Vegas took bets on it. LOL
Bringing up Belichick and Brady is just low hanging fruit and has nothing to do with the topic at hand, fixing games. thats why it is lazy.
now, a ref who is getting paid nearly 1/3 of a million dollars a year would have to be offered a whole lot of money to risk loosing a gig like that. because I will tell you, if a professional ref gets caught fixing games, they will never have a chance at another sports job again.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I believe that most games are clean, likely if not definitely the vast majority.
However it would be naive to think that cheating doesn't sometimes go on, and that a good number of the cheaters don't get caught.
changing the rules of football to make it illegal to hit a QB looks like cheating to me. You are literally rigging games to benefit a certain type of team at the expense of another
Somebody up thread mentioned football in England being rigged. You want to talk about stupid fans those people A: don't realize they are watching soccer not football , B: will randomly kill other fans over the score of a game , and C: are the idiots that gave the world cricket. How dumb do you need to be to be a cricket fan? Like baseball isn't dismal enough they watch a game that could go on for days and makes absolutely no sense to anyone.
this was a fix job that i watched live back in 2002. i will never forget this sh*t until the day i die. i remember feeling sick to my stomach with what was transpiring, and i couldn't have cared less about who won. the Lakers shot 27 free throws in the fourth quarter alone. the NBA did everything in its power to keep small market Sacramento out of the Finals and insert The Lake Show with Kobe & Shaq..............and they succeeded. years later when Tim Donaghy's attorney filed a court document that alleged rigged outcomes by certain refs, this game -- to the surprise of no one -- was at the top of his list.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Thank goodness that the Roller Derby is still a bastion of integrity and true sport.
Tim Donaghy, anyone?
It’s certainly possible. Refs can decide the outcome of just about any sport they choose.
As long as there’s gambling and money to be made, there should be suspicion at minimum.
Part of the reason I stick with fantasy, box pools, survivor and other low cost and random games of chance like that rather than spreads and lines - myself.
Less risk and good fun.
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can we stop with the gambling?
the mob is more honest than the franchise owners or the execs of the media companies have ever been.
Well I was referring to your short sighted point that the large sums of money in the game would be a barrier to game fixing (or more likely point shaving). The NBA ref was busted a decade ago and the consequences were severe. That is a deterrent to many but not all.
NFL/NBA should be fighting legalized sports wagering tooth and nail, instead they are endorsing it...for a cut.
With the right colored glasses though, nothing will look any different.
I couldn’t agree more. 20 or so years ago I drove myself crazy with betting NFL, it’s honestly one of if not the the worst gambling out there. I meen I’ve lost every possible way in fantasy but it’s much cheaper than trying to beat the spread, how many “Bail out” or “Must Win” games have literally gone bad for people!
http://amp.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article10361312.html This game right here was a “Lock” for me, t took VT minus 36 and wouldn’t ya know it ended 36-0 and ofcourse the VT kicker missed an extra point not to mention the ridiculous penalties to stop VT on sure TD plays. 😝
I have also always sucked at gambling on anything but black jack and horses.
I worked in finance a while and learned a lesson from the got who helped get me a job there. Great quote:
“You can’t find too many rich gamblers OR too many poor bookies.”
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
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Looks like it was in the Open Forum which went poof before my time here as well.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/182510/bored-read-moon-landing-conspiracy-open-forum
One day there is no doubt that sports venues such as NFL and MLB stadiums will mirror today's horse racetracks.
There will be betting windows on virtually any wagering proposition imaginable. Also next to each stadium seat will be a little betting machine for the convenience of those who don't want to walk-up to the betting windows. Of course there will be online betting on everything as well.
"I'll bet $20 on Jones to score a TD during this drive" and other propositions of this sort will be commonly heard throughout the game. The action will be non-stop, including action on other sports games going on in the US and around the world. The stadiums may remain open 24/7 to accommodate gamblers in heat at any hour.
It will be a gambling addict's paradise...that is until their money and credit runs out.
LOL!!
One of your better posts.
Water is $11.00 at the new football stadium here in Minnesota.
You do know that WWE is fake and not real.......don't you.