It is 1924. You are the cashier of the US Denver Mint ...

dcarrdcarr Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 8, 2018 4:57PM in U.S. Coin Forum

How do you ship newly-minted 1924-D coins to the Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank ?
You prepare a shipping tag like this, tie it to a canvas bag full of coins, and send it via USPS Registered mail:

This particular shipping tag is the only one that I have ever seen that is from a US Mint. I have seen similar tags for shipments between banks, but none with this unusual $2 Franklin stamp (which is quite rare when still on an original shipping cover or document). The $2 stamp is also the rarer black and "lake" color variant (most of this issue is black and carmine). The Scott postage stamp catalog lists this one as #547a. The tag also has a violet-brown $1 Franklin (Scott #518) and a red-violet 50-cent Franklin (Scott #517).
.

Comments

  • BullsitterBullsitter Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dan, you always have some cool stuff to share, those stamps caught my eye.

  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2018 4:09AM

    Very interesting; money by mail. A lot of things used to go by mail. In the 1960s, while serving in Germany, I had to go to the post office to pick up a package for my unit. It was an M16 rifle; through the US mail no less!

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 35,758 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2018 4:42AM

    B) That is super cool.

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭✭

    That is a great piece of numismastic and postal history.

    $3.50 for registered mail to boot.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 16,449 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is an item that would generate great interest among the remaining stamp collectors. It is the type of thing that would help someone win a gold medal at a major APS (American Philatelic Society) exhibit. (Exhibiting remains very important among serious stamp collectors.)

    All glory is fleeting.
  • rickoricko Posts: 62,302 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now that is really unique.... Neat stamps and the fact that they are shipping money. Cheers, RickO

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting!

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 25,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Neat item.

    Any idea what the "80" is for? Is that the Registered package number?

    I would speculate that earlier in the year bags of coins were sent to Federal Reserve Banks in bulk via some service like Wells Fargo, but that if a FRB requested one or two bags late in the year it was cheaper to do it this way.

    As they say in the wallpaper trade, "How's it hanging?"
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ah ha!! Cross collectable!!

    bob :)

    BST deals: Dozens of buys/sells. Will provide a list upon request.
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭✭

    thzats way cool I like

  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is interesting to see how it was being handled at a much different time reflecting a different society in culture as well as value :# This kind of parcel we usually see transported in Brink courier now these days :|
    Thank you for sharing @dcarr and BTW what's new into 2019? <3

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The ultimate PNC.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 4,792 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm actually kindda amazed at how nice a shape it's in. These days I seriously doubt that tag would stay attached to the bag the way mail is handled these days!

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 3,106 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unique. Dan, is this now a part of your Colorado collection?


  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kudbegud said:
    Unique. Dan, is this now a part of your Colorado collection?

    Yes. I saw it on eBay and although the price was a little high the seller and I agreed on a price ($400). Being the only one like it that I have ever seen, there is nothing to compare it to. Of course, I have to wonder what it might actually be worth (what someone else would actually pay for it). I think it would probably realize a stronger price if auctioned in a coin or currency venue rather than a stamps venue.

  • rln_14rln_14 Posts: 339 ✭✭✭

    very cool, thanks for posting

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    Neat item.

    Any idea what the "80" is for? Is that the Registered package number?

    I would speculate that earlier in the year bags of coins were sent to Federal Reserve Banks in bulk via some service like Wells Fargo, but that if a FRB requested one or two bags late in the year it was cheaper to do it this way.

    Yes, I believe the "80" is the Registered package number. If another one like this ever turns up it will be interesting to see the date and the number on it.

    Looking at 1924-D coins and mintages, there is:

    1-cent: 2,520,000 coins | 1,260 $20 bags.
    5-cent: 5,258,000 coins | 2,629 $100 bags.
    10-cent: 6,810,000 coins | 681 $1,000 bags.
    25-cent: 3,112,000 coins | 778 $1,000 bags.
    20-dollar: 3,049,500 coins | 6,099 $500 bags.

    The quantities in each bag may not actually be what I have listed above. But any way you look at it, that is a lot of bags. It is unlikely that all the bags were shipped individually via US Mail. There had to have been larger freight shipments by container or palette.

    So it is possible that the Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank was in need of a few more of a particular denomination to keep them flush until the next large delivery.

    Based on the postage amount, I theorize that this tag was for a single bag of dimes or quarters. But there was no value written on this tag.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2018 5:35PM

    Here is another one. This time a 1932 shipment from the Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank TO the US Philadelphia Mint.
    The left end was cut off rather than untied. A value of "$250.00" was written on the tag. Presumably, that was the face value.

    This one has a rare $5 Franklin green and black postage stamp (Scott #524). All the stamps were pre-cancelled. The 8-cents, 20-cents, 50-cents, and 1-dollar stamps by over-printed black bars and "ATLANTA / GA.". The $5 stamp was pre-cancelled by perforation holes (also known in philatelic parlance as a "perfin" cancellation). The $5 stamp also has a rather heavy black oval cancellation over it. The perfin cancellation and the unusually-heavy black cancellation both lower the value of the stamp. But the black oval does tie the stamp to the tag. When a cancellation on a stamp overlaps onto the surrounding surface it helps to verify that the stamp was original to the document or cover. There are instances in modern times where someone has taken an older rare cancelled stamp that has been damaged on the back and they affix it to an envelope or document for two reasons: (1) to simulate the stamp as being "on cover" which increases the apparent value; and (2) to obscure the damage on the back (such damage usually being a "thin" spot where a layer of paper has been peeled of the back when the stamp was removed from whatever it was originally affixed to). So a cancellation which ties the stamp to the piece is generally required for authentication. The 8-cent olive-green Grant stamp is also tied (just barely) to the tag via the round purple Atlanta GA Federal Reserve Station (Registered) cancellation.

    Pre-cancellation of postage stamps was a common practice during the 1930s. At the time, there was a plague of post office robberies around the country. The robbers were, of course, after cash. But postage stamps were more abundant at post offices of course, and they were almost as good as cash. So the main target for post office robbers was the postage stamps. In an attempt to thwart such thievery, the post office would pre-cancel many of the postage stamps so that if stolen they would be worthless. Today, most pre-cancelled stamps are worth somewhat more than normally-cancelled stamps (but usually not as much as un-cancelled stamps).


    .
    .
    Why would the Atlanta FRB be sending coins to the US Mint ?
    Perhaps these were damaged mutilated coins being recycled.
    .
    .

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 4,792 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Damn! They had to really kill that $5 stamp!

    @dcarr said:
    Here is another one. This time a 1932 shipment from the Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank TO the US Philadelphia Mint.
    The left end was cut off rather than untied. A value of "$250.00" was written on the tag. Presumably, that was the face value.

    This one has a rare $5 Franklin green and black postage stamp (Scott #524). All the stamps were pre-cancelled. The 8-cents, 20-cents, 50-cents, and 1-dollar stamps by over-printed black bars and "ATLANTA / GA.". The $5 stamp was pre-cancelled by perforation holes (also known in philatelic parlance as a "perfin" cancellation). The $5 stamp also has a rather heavy black oval cancellation over it. The perfin cancellation and the unusually-heavy black cancellation both lower the value of the stamp. But the black oval does tie the stamp to the tag. When a cancellation on a stamp overlaps onto the surrounding surface it helps to verify that the stamp was original to the document or cover. There are instances in modern times where someone has taken an older rare cancelled stamp that has been damaged on the back and they affix it to an envelope or document for two reasons: (1) to simulate the stamp as being "on cover" which increases the apparent value; and (2) to obscure the damage on the back (such damage usually being a "thin" spot where a layer of paper has been peeled of the back when the stamp was removed from whatever it was originally affixed to). So a cancellation which ties the stamp to the piece is generally required for authentication. The 8-cent olive-green Grant stamp is also tied (just barely) to the tag via the round purple Atlanta GA Federal Reserve Station (Registered) cancellation.

    Pre-cancellation of postage stamps was a common practice during the 1930s. At the time, there was a plague of post office robberies around the country. The robbers were, of course, after cash. But postage stamps were more abundant at post offices of course, and they were almost as good as cash. So the main target for post office robbers was the postage stamps. In an attempt to thwart such thievery, the post office would pre-cancel many of the postage stamps so that if stolen they would be worthless. Today, most pre-cancelled stamps are worth somewhat more than normally-cancelled stamps (but usually not as much as un-cancelled stamps).


    .
    .
    Why would the Atlanta FRB be sending coins to the US Mint ?
    Perhaps these were damaged mutilated coins being recycled.
    .
    .

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @messydesk said:
    The ultimate PNC.

    Many readers here probably don't know that acronym.
    It was somewhat popular in the 1960s and 1970s - not so much today.

    PNC - Philatelic Numismatic Combined.
    .

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 25,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Philatelic Numismatic Cover, not Combined.

    As they say in the wallpaper trade, "How's it hanging?"
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    Philatelic Numismatic Cover, not Combined.

    Yes, I have heard it in reference to "Cover". But also as "Combined".
    Most of the items known as PNCovers were manufactured collectibles from the 1960s onward.
    There are a lot of PNC items that are not technically covers (stamped envelopes).
    In fact, I think the most interesting PNCombined items are not actually covers.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 25,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe that the first PNCover was when somebody glued a couple of 1964 Kennedy halves on envelopes on their release day, put stamps on them and had them cancelled.

    As they say in the wallpaper trade, "How's it hanging?"
  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2018 2:36AM

    @CaptHenway said:
    I believe that the first PNCover was when somebody glued a couple of 1964 Kennedy halves on envelopes on their release day, put stamps on them and had them cancelled.

    From SmallDollars.com ( http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/page09.html ):
    "While the Anthony Dollar First Day of Issue Covers were the first produced on a large scale, they weren't the first ones made. The first year of issue for the Kennedy Half Dollar was 1964. Collector John M. Baker took two of the Kennedy Half Dollars, glued them to the outside of an envelope, and had the envelope postmarked on March 24, 1964 - the first day the halves were released to the public. One was sold at auction in 1967 for $2,000. It was sold again at a "Collectors of Certified Coins" auction on September 27, 1969 and went for a whopping $18,000. WOW!!!"

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 16,449 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @Kudbegud said:
    Unique. Dan, is this now a part of your Colorado collection?

    Yes. I saw it on eBay and although the price was a little high the seller and I agreed on a price ($400). Being the only one like it that I have ever seen, there is nothing to compare it to. Of course, I have to wonder what it might actually be worth (what someone else would actually pay for it). I think it would probably realize a stronger price if auctioned in a coin or currency venue rather than a stamps venue.

    I think it would do better in a high end stamp auction. It is in prime condition, is rare, and would fit very nicely into a major exhibit. It is always a question mark when items like this appear. If auctioned you have to have at least two enthusiastic bidders with money to do well.

    All glory is fleeting.
Sign In or Register to comment.