U.S. Mint Sales Of Silver, Gold Coins Headed To 11-Year Low
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That's bullish, imo.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
maybe they should lower their premiums.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Premiums are - IMO - inordinately high on the PM coins...One can get better deals, though not straight from the mint - online. Cheers, RickO
Impossible
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The time to buy always seems to be when nobody else is. I'm certainly doing my part although buying anything I can get a deal on which typically isn't current years bullion.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
And if you can find them, they are expensive. Very expensive.
More than possible with ebay bonus bucks, I do it with every bonus bucks offer. Just got this one for less than spot with the 10% bonus bucks earned and the 1% credit card rebate:
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
When the economy is doing well and unemployment is doing well the demand for precious metals falls. Confidence in where you next paycheck is coming from is a good thing. Silver will be below 8 before it's above 14 if this continues for the long term.
bob
40 million oz sold in 2011---average cost about $36/oz or about $1.4 billion.
47 million oz sold in 2015---average cost about $16/oz or about $750 million.
17 million oz sold in 2018---average cost about $16/oz or about $270 million.
And we blame manipulation for the price decline??!! LMFAO!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
No, we blame manipulation from preventing accurate price discovery.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The market is the market.
If price goes up, they dig and melt and strike faster. Price goes back down.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
It's already above $14.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That's just physical silver eagles which is just a drop in the bucket. The paper derivative market aka fantasy land is where manipulation occurs. Manipulators move paper, not physical metal. And oh yeah they can just as easily manipulate the price higher if they so choose.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Yeah really. Dollar demand for eagles dropped 80%, while the price dropped 72%. Something definitely amiss. Lol
Are you saying prices should be another 10% lower?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Now that would be a fun time, $8....
I am liking some of the Low for commeratives but agree the premiums are high. In the down market has the US mint slimmed down on its G&A? Probable not.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
physical silver prices are based on spot prices. spot prices are based on synthetic silver paper prices. Who knows what physical silver prices would really be if physical silver supply and demand actually determined them. I'l betcha they would be higher than an unlimited supply of paper silver says they should be. But you knew this, didn't ya? lol
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Your hypothesis is a bit FUBAR, but I am highly confident that without the liquidity that the futures market provides, physical silver would be much lower.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Agree with you, regarding common, generic , boring and ugly bullion.
However, we often talk about "physical silver prices" in terms of attractive, fabricated, "limited edition" items that collectors favor, such as this year's ASE for my set, older poured bars, and even older beer steins, for example.
For the latter, silver spot price "matters", but so does collector demand, which is variably elastic.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Sorta like the diamond market? lol
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
11 year low isn't an all time low
It is possible that without the paper silver market that 1955 quarter might trade for 50c....to a baby boomer relishing his past.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
No...nothing like the diamond market.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Correct. There are no diamond futures on the COMEX; their high prices are dictated strictly by supply and demand of the product. Yet you say things would be different for PMs in such a scenario? LOL
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I wonder if this will inspire the mint to stop making stupid ugly things that no one wants? At low prices and low demand levels the 17 minor variations of silver eagles might get cut back. To like 2 maybe , bullion and proof.
So you think the PM market is like the diamond market?
SMH.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
When the output exceeds the income, the upkeep will be the downfall.
World's apart simply because of the price discovery mechanism. You said "I am highly confident that without the liquidity that the futures market provides, physical silver would be much lower."
Seems the lack of a COMEX futures market for diamonds has done the opposite for diamond prices. I highly suspect diamond prices would be much lower if they did have a futures market. The diamond market is a perfect example of how supply (albeit tightly controlled) and demand ("a diamond is forever") are supposed to be the tools for price discovery. No such tools for the real PM product when price discovery is based on unlimited promises for the real product.
PM premiums alone are the only portion of price that are in fact determined by actual physical supply and demand. As you well know, the base price (spot) is determined by unlimited promises to deliver.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The article makes a possible connection between lower gold sales at the US Mint and lower firearms sales and the election of Trump.
While that may be the case, it doesn't mention why the increasing demand for gold from China & India isn't impacting the paper price of gold in the US.
Bill Holter points out that there is only about 4T of un-allocated gold now at Comex and that Treasury auctions have been undersubscribed. Gold has no counterparty, and the dollar is having trouble.
It's not rocket science. There will be some turbulence, probably soon, but who the heck knows the outcome?
Anybody seen Godot around here? :P
I knew it would happen.
As you well know, the base price (spot) is determined by unlimited promises to deliver.
Unlimited....you make it sound so nefarious. Lol. There is nothing "unlimited" about it. Still gotta have a buyer and seller. Are they unlimited?
But as I think about your diamond analogy, it that does support my contention. As you know
, diamonds are practically worthless until all shined pretty and mounted on more shiny metal and offered to someone with a promise.
Silver, without a more liquid market, would need to be all shined up, maybe have a cute motto stamped on it, and offered with a promise to have any value.......hmmm.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Lol...strong fundamentals there.
Maybe that Chinese price discovery in effect. Haha
Dollar trouble? Have you looked at a chart?
4t of "un-allocated" gold. WTF does that mean?
No it isn't, stop trying to make seem that way.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
cohodk, you don't know what only 4 tons of un-allocated gold means? Really?
It means that you don't want your gold stored at Comex.
Dollar trouble? Have you looked at a chart?
Golly, the dollar looks stellar compared to the other paper currency disasters. So what? The issue is unsustainable levels of debt, not comparison to other fiats.
Got bonds? Go for it! I'll cheer you on.
I knew it would happen.
Dollar chart has upward pointing moving averages. Silvers are pointing down.
Yes, jmski, what is this 4T I un-allocated gold. Tells me how it is un-allocated. I'm asking for proof....and I'm asking knowing you wont prove anything. You cant....because all this crap is made up fake news BS.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
"With an unallocated account the customer doesn't have an entitlement to any specific bullion bars, and is a creditor of the bullion bank. So long as the customer is happy with the counterparty risk, this is the cheapest way for him to have exposure to gold. From the bank's point of view, there is no need to hold more gold than required to meet customer withdrawals."
https://goldmoney.com/research/goldmoney-insights/unwinding-unallocated-gold-accounts
Doesn't look like fake news to me.
I knew it would happen.
If prices keep dropping pretty soon I'll be able to make a new tinfoil hat for myself out of silver
Seems like a great time to buy more gold and other precious metals.
On a side note, it also seems like a great time to obtain cryptocurrency. I, myself, have a small collection of Bitcoins.
It's also possible to obtain gold with bitcoin on places like Vaultoro.
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If there was a futures (derivatives) market in "paper" diamonds, the price of physical diamonds would likely be much lower. Based on the non-scarcity of diamonds, it is hard to imagine that prices would be higher if there was a paper market in diamonds.
Conversely, if there was no futures (derivatives) market in "paper" precious metals, the price of physical precious metals might be much higher.
Fact remains there are unlimited futures contracts available for those willing to buy them. The futures market is where you create a false sense of supply of the underlying physical asset. Only an idiot can't see this. Put your glasses on.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Or, "unlimited promises to buy"?
"False" sense of demand?
Certainly, it can work both ways, right?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Of course. But it will only happen if JPM decides to drive up the price and cash in their vault full of physical holdings.
I suspect they want to continue buying on the cheap and accumulating massive profits with their shorts. . . for now.
J.P. Morgan has never taken a loss in 10 years when adding short positions in silver.
JPM has effectively cornered the silver market and is in full control of the price.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Golly! That sure sounds a lot like
counterparty risk
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Only if you're a party to the paper scam and are holding COMEX paper longs. I'm doing what JPM is doing. . . stockpiling the real stuff. Fact is they are filling their vault with silver AND they control the price. Where do you think that road will end?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Golly! That sure sounds a lot like
counterparty risk
Sounds like a fraud scheme more than it sounds like counterparty risk. The only risk is in getting thrown in jail, assuming that you're not too big to prosecute.
I knew it would happen.
Sounds like a classic pump and dump scheme, and it sounds like some of us think they are "in on it"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Banksters, CEO's and politicians don't get thrown in jail. Carry on! Semper Fi!!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Neither diamonds nor silver are scarce. Small diamonds already trade for just a few dollars per carat. It's only the bigger and shinier and produced for aesthetic appeal that sell for more. You know all about that process, right dcarr?
For those who think silver would trade for more without a futures market enabling global a convenient means of bringing producers and consumers together, please enlighten me. My ears and eyes are open.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
There is zero evidence that JPM owns or controls any silver. Does Ameritrade own your IRA derryb? Ameritrade is the custodian and every trade you make has their name on it.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Any bullion dealers in jail? Silver has dropped 70% and many people have lost their life savings.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
What's fake is the hoopla surrounding it. You tout it as being a "fundamental" when it actually means nothing.....just like all the other fake and misleading stories that get pushed by PM bugs.
Gold and silver are up 4x over the last 15 years yet you guys continue to be querulous. Quite fascinating. Like spoiled brats.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The guilty parties are the dealers, not the investment per se'. The fraudsters should be prosecuted. You can't prosecute silver, nor is there a reason to do so. There are more banksters who are complicit in the scheme to defraud investors in stocks & bonds through HFT manipulation and interest rate manipulation than there will ever be bullion dealers who are complicit in a scheme to defraud investors in silver, simply because there are more banksters involved in those activities.
Caveat emptor. That's true for any investment (or speculation).
I knew it would happen.