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11 WORN DIMES AND THIS GAL! Verdict is In....
Verno
Posts: 325 ✭✭✭
Guy pulls out 11 worn run of the mill mercury dimes and then this one....Does this look like the real deal to you?? If so, Care to guess the grade as it may be visiting our host. Note for some reason a lot of the lettering looks doubled in the picture. It did not look that way in hand.....
**See Below ...added detail shot of D and a prior point of interest the top bands..
Will the rim ding at 11 o clock keep it from straight grading?
Does it change anyone's opinion one way or another? Have fun today and enjoy!**
Best regards and happy thanksgiving!
RJ
2
Comments
That d looks real
RJ call me
The droopy upper band gives me some pause.
Imagine a parallel line across the top of the D. In the OP's it is slightly below the olive leaf. The Coinfacts images are all slightly higher with the same parallel line ending in the lower portion of the leaf. I think it is a no go.
The MM position is fairly close to Die #4
Top row is Die # 1-2
2nd row is Die # 3-4
Bottom is OP coin
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
I was thinking Die 4, coin was really nice in hand, rim ding at 11 oclock.....
The twist of the D doesn't look the same, does it?
Looks like die 4. The inner curve on the D looks correct to me.
Pete
So you paid melt for all 12 dimes?
What are the circumstances surrounding the purchase? Junk bin find? Really?
I would guess that this dime (if the real deal) is somewhere around AU50
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Nope, the customer wanted to keep the 11 or so generic dimes....
Customer was lucky enough to go to honest metals buyer who told him this coin was special and that he should get with me. It is my intention to send the coin to PCGS today on my dime, then pay him a fair value depending on what PCGS tells us...that seems to be the fairest thing to do. Hopefully a win-win for all... Which will lead me to a thread idea, actually 2 ideas, I have for over the holiday...stay tuned... Regards and happy thanksgiving , RJ
PS , in hand it looked every bit better than AU50 to me
Like!
I don't like the D, but maybe that is just the pic. PCGS should get it right.
I will try to post better picture today if I get it in hand to send. RJ
That is quite the 'walk in'....bet that got your heart thumping.... I have my reservations, but it could be the pictures... Look forward to what our hosts say..... Best of luck... Cheers, RickO
Assume it's counterfeit unless able to do a detailed inspection of the coin in hand. Pictures don't even begin to cut it with '16-D dime.
The droopy upper band gives me some pause.
I had the same thought.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Designer's initials, too.
Sending to PCGS on your "dime" isn't a smart move. You don't own the coin. He should be the one taking the risk of wasting money on authentication and slabbing.
Makes me wonder why the guy didn't sell the 11 worn dimes to "the metals buyer."
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
At first glance looks awesome... but points others have brought up triggers the caution/warning flags. 11 worn dimes and then this one? If something is too good to be true.....
Have any of you here run into a strike doubled 16-D? The OP coin looks to have strike doubling.
Pete
It looks genuine to my untrained eyes ....... AU55 at least. Good luck!
I hope it works out!
My YouTube Channel
if that proves to be good some one made out like a bANdit
CoinFacts
OP’s
Sorry, but I vote not genuine.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Way Cool...if that baby was a Morgan she would probably grade 58-62, no problem...I hope you guys Hit Big!
Fake until it grades.
Coin is going to host...but kindly keep opining! Regards RJ
I also don't like the overall look of the coin...much less some of the little details that the picture doesn't help to see well enough.
When it’s too good to be true.....
This reminds me of the gypsies’ mo, w/a slight twist or two, or 3...
"This reminds me of the gypsies’ mo, w/a slight twist or two, or 3..."
So in this case the dealer puts the coin in a box without paying for it?
Who knows where, how the seller acquired the Oceans 11 coins.
How many 16-d Mercs have a d that looks like this
I have 5 16-Ds au55, 58 all graded by p, n & none of the Ds are “doubled.”
This.
I recently evaluated and inventoried a large horde of coins my brother had purchased, Many coins were damaged by PVC contamination which I helped him remove. Happily, the coins were not goners from PVC as acetone easily removed it from the ones affected.
There were a number of key date Walkers, including multiple examples of all of the 21's in this horde, in addition to a single '16-D dime.
I took the '16-D to a local shop and asked them for an opinion on authenticity. The shop person spent about 30 seconds looking at the coin and said to me, "Yep. It's real." My brother sent the '16-D to PCGS and they certified and graded the piece for him.
My opinion the best coin in the horde? A 1919-S SLQ that graded PCGS XF45. Gorgeous coin.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
As I said in initial post, photography with my galaxay S8 + was not ideal, but it is what I had when I first met client. We met at a Panera, as a courtesy to my referral source...crap lighting, rushed.... as we we both in between appointments, the D does not have the doubleing, especially on the D that showed up in the photogrph. I have the coin back in hand, and will put pictures up so everyone has a diversion on Thanksgiving. RJ
Care to elaborate on the comment ** So in this case the dealer puts the coin in a box without paying for it?**
Sounds nefarious to me....a pejorative?
The client , a Baptist reverend and a Dr of psychology, was helping a parishioner downsize her estate and help her move into smaller quarters. In one drawer, he found 11 loose mercury dimes....in a "safe box" of some sort, with jewelry, he found this coin in a hard plastic holder. The whole process is somewhat of a favor to the the parishioner....
On a different note, one of the things I learned from the Omega Man is to let facts out slowly as the guesses and "filling in of the blanks" reveal way more about the subsequent posters than the original writer of the post.
Happy T Day to all,
RJ
Forumites can be very quick in posting to a thread like this and giving their opinions.
Reading threads like this provides insight into the persons who post replies.
Good luck to you and the owner of the 1916D dime. Hopefully it will straight grade as an MS coin.
Very cool Verno, I’ll be looking forward to the grade decision — I hope you guys score. And great to hear your efforts to be totally legit with this guy on the deal.
My vote is not genuine.
This.
Thanks for posting this and please let us know the decision of PCGS!
Kaz, everytime I see that dog it brings a smile to my face!
New Pictures Posted as part of first Post.
The inside of the rim/edge looks a little odd but I wish you luck.
The improved reverse picture helps. No doubling of 'D" seen on 2nd posted picture of reverse. Lange in_ The Complete Guide to Mercury Dimes_, shows pictures of RPM 1 from die #2 and RPM 2 from die #3.
Reverse die #1 & #2- "D" does not appear to be high enough to be from #1 or #2. Also, the "D" is very close to the leaf on genuine 1916-D from die #1.
Lange pictures (from ANAAB) shows the "D" much farther away from the leaf on genuine from die #3 and #4.
My brother's genuine 1916-D was from die #3. The "D" is very bold and has distinct upper and lower serifs. Also, I noted that the "D" on my brother's coin has considerable tilt downward.
Comparing the OP piece to my brother's (which I do not have in hand as I write this) i'm noting serif only on the upper part of the "D" on the OP coin. No lower serif present on the OP coin. Also, the tilt angle of the "D" does not seem to be as great as I was seeing on my brother's certified-as- genuine '16-D. Tilt angle difference in the "D"'s is an impression I have formed and by no means should be taken as the gospel on "D" tilt angle as I do not have my brother's coin in hand to compare to the OP's 2nd reverse picture at this writing.
This leaves from die #4 as a possible for the OP's coin. Now, I would need to directly compare OP coin "D" position and tilt to a genuine from die #4 to complete my junior analysis here. Not possible to do this so I, along with others, will leave it to the experts at PCGS to figure it out. If genuine, I will say here that i suspect the OP coin is from die #4.
Question for OP: Do you observe any rotation of the reverse with respect to the obverse and if so, how much?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Thank you for thoughtful post...no die rotation.... RJ
The concept of "fake until it grades" is interesting.
Adhered to literally this concept means the every 1916D dime produced by the Denver mint in 1916 was fake from the moment after striking until 70 or more years later a TPG opines that a submitted coin is genuine and places it in a slab.
How did the hobby survive and thrive before TPGs were gormed?