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Is this quarter an exposed copper layer error?

JBKJBK Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

I wanted to create an alt ID to ask this stupid question, but I am hoping for some feedback on this coin. I am 100% sure it is environmental damage, but I wanted to post it for the benefit of new collectors. ;)

The only reason I might second guess the PMD/ED diagnosis is that the edge near the copper colored obverse and reverse is also solid copper/dark in color, but the rest of the edge is normal.

Any ideas? Thx as well as apologies in advance. :p
Hi




Comments

  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is there a "LIP" where the clad layer is higher than what looks like the copper layer?

    GrandAm :)
  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have not found one yet. If I find one then I will assume it suffered an acid attack. Tonight when I take my contacts out I will be able to get up close with my very nearsighted vision (better than a magnifying glass).

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, that coin is corroded, sorry.

  • TookybanditTookybandit Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭

    +1 environmental damage

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes I can easily agree on corrosion, but what about the color of the edge? Is it surface "rust" rather than exposed copper?

    I'll probably keep it as a reference piece.

    Thx for the feedback.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,244 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    Yes I can easily agree on corrosion, but what about the color of the edge? Is it surface "rust" rather than exposed copper?

    I'll probably keep it as a reference piece.

    Thx for the feedback.

    The weight should tell you. Looks like acid to me, but then it should be light.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cannot really determine what is going on from the pictures ...not that the pictures are bad, just that it think that needs 'in hand' evaluation.....Cheers, RickO

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it looks like some sort of corrosion but have you tried soaking it in acetone?

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • exberlinerexberliner Posts: 5
    edited June 10, 2022 9:02PM

    Reopening due to a recent find, also first-time sign-ups and post.
    I picked up a few rolls at the bank and this popped out. I read the post, acetone had no effect. I don't think it's environmental damage, the copper color is too smooth, and the rim hasn't been affected. It sort of also appears as if the copper color at "States of America" has a gradual color-fade that extends past the copper, in a rounding/arc like a sliver of a moon. It begins at the "ST" of States and extends a bit past the last "a" in America, halting at the top of the lettering of "God We".

    The copper spot under the word "War" also has that fade to gray area, and around the soldiers helmet. (That's just a droplet of rain on the side there.)

    The edges are crisp and clear, 50/50 copper/plating... Any feedback would be appreciated.

    https://images.craigslist.org/00505_64rQh3zeSgxz_0lM0t2_1200x900.jpg

    https://images.craigslist.org/00V0V_9O5r7tm4wNrz_0lM0t2_1200x900.jpg

    https://images.craigslist.org/00y0y_6rGiEfL0YU2z_0lM0t2_1200x900.jpg

    https://images.craigslist.org/00A0A_hehgV92Mek8z_0lM0t2_1200x900.jpg

    https://images.craigslist.org/00t0t_bMjJChL5XO9z_0lM0t2_1200x900.jpg

  • emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The edge seems to be untouched.
    Check for any hairline die cracks.

  • I was gathering quarters to do laundry and found a 2008 with a copper or bronze side (head) with Alaska (silver) on the opposite side. It is perfectly even and when I look to the side the copper is evenly pressed against the silver all the way around. Obviously I know little to nothing about coins but was curious where to find out if it is worth anything? Hopefully enough to get my washing machine fixed or a new one. I am not usually lucky like that so am not expecting much but was just curious. Thanks to anyone who replies.

  • OldhoopsterOldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @robtempe said:
    I was gathering quarters to do laundry and found a 2008 with a copper or bronze side (head) with Alaska (silver) on the opposite side. It is perfectly even and when I look to the side the copper is evenly pressed against the silver all the way around. Obviously I know little to nothing about coins but was curious where to find out if it is worth anything? Hopefully enough to get my washing machine fixed or a new one. I am not usually lucky like that so am not expecting much but was just curious. Thanks to anyone who replies.

    Welcome

    1. When the system admin approves your membership, post a cropped, focused pic of both sides in a new thread. You can also link a pic through another source (may be quicker than waiting for approval)
    2. Weigh the coin. At least to the nearest 0.1 gram (0.01 grams is better).
    3. Don't get your hopes up. Clad coins can discolor and look like copper from environmental exposure.
    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @robtempe said:
    I was gathering quarters to do laundry and found a 2008 with a copper or bronze side (head) with Alaska (silver) on the opposite side. It is perfectly even and when I look to the side the copper is evenly pressed against the silver all the way around. Obviously I know little to nothing about coins but was curious where to find out if it is worth anything? Hopefully enough to get my washing machine fixed or a new one. I am not usually lucky like that so am not expecting much but was just curious. Thanks to anyone who replies.

    As mentioned above, don't get your hopes up too much just yet, but best case scenario is that it's a missing clad layer error.

    Some new members who can't post pics have had luck putting their pics on a hosting site and posting the link.

    If it is real, it might fund repairs but I doubt a new machine. ;)

    BTW, be careful handling it. Only hold it by the edges.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2022 8:10AM

    Also, when you get pics or a link it might be best to start a new thread.

  • @emeraldATV said:
    The edge seems to be untouched.
    Check for any hairline die cracks.

    Thanks for feedback. As far as I (or "the eye") can see, no cracks. The surface feels smooth and unlayered, as opposed to EVD (=ABrV. for env. dam.?). What would be my next step with this? $35 +/- is a bit steep for me to authenticate it ( my work income and monthly costs are carefully calculated). What would be a ballpark figure?

    {Random thought process/commentary follows...my Tourrets needs an outlet now and then}

    This is a tasty intellectual challenge, numismatist (or is it numismathematician? Wink and Grin emoji!) Either way, puts the thought process into a different drive letter (into a different gear, if you prefer to shift manually, a skill that is becoming lost with these self-piloted cars. Soon Taco Bell will own everything and you'll have to swear to get a real paper ticket so you can wipe your butt...the movies "IDIOCRACY" & "DEMOLITION MAN" are the scary future!)

    {No, I don't REALLY believe it, but it's a fun thought}

  • OldhoopsterOldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The brownish spots look raised indicated adhered corrosion. With the black discoloration on other areas, it's far more likely to be damage than exposed copper

    In addition, any cladding defects would originate in the ingot process. The ingots are rolled into long strips of the specified thickness for blanking. Any defect in the cladding would be elongated by the rolling process and yours shows an irregular pattern, which isn't consistent with missing cladding.

    My recommendation is to not send it in save yourself the money

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • I couldn't post the pix before, so placed a craigslist ad to host my photos, quick and easy. I think you are commenting on the pic posted by @emeraldATV. I can embed images now, so here are these. It seems raised portions in the same area are less affected by the color, and there is the fade-into coloration, almost like an old .gif file, or different layers paint. It's as smooth as quarters usually are. Right now I'm gathering info.




    1941 Mercury Dime, battered and worn;
    Just found this today as I counted my cash register at the dollar store. It was just staring up at me... (Funny, same thing happened a few months ago, a 1941 buffalo nickel in my till at start).


  • MarkW63MarkW63 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2022 9:24PM

    Do these count?

    "I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
    Thomas Jefferson!

  • humanssuckhumanssuck Posts: 454 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @exberliner said:
    (Funny, same thing happened a few months ago, a 1941 buffalo nickel in my till at start).

    Forget the other coins, a 1941 buffalo nickel would be the real find of a lifetime.

  • MarkW63MarkW63 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2022 9:41PM

    @exberliner
    When people who metal detect find common coins (regular change) they often wait until they get a pretty large amount of it then they'll wash it, maybe tumble it and then cash it in, coin star machines are commonly used, roll it up and take it to banks. Nickles and common clad when its been it the ground very long will take on a rusty red color, well washed up a bit it could be called a dull copper color. People who metal detect for decades has put millions of dollars of change back into circulation. Also, they're many detectorist that experiments with lots of different coin cleaning methods trying to make the coins look normal, Salt solution, vinegar, chemicals of all sorts and what often times happens is that when these cleanings happen and pennies are included in the batch the clad will take on the copper color of the pennies. So, expect to see LOTS of them in your change drawer.

    "I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
    Thomas Jefferson!

  • emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess your just venting reading that rant. Cool.
    Save the coin as a reference and think of it this way.
    Your doing the mint a solid, as one less problem on the streets.

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I found a Kennedy half that looked a little like that one in a roll. I chaulked it up to corrosion.

  • Thanks all for the feedback and info. (@jimnight: Corrosion leaves pits, dips and generally has an unevenly distributed color, plus it is somewhat unattractive.)

    I learned a buttload about cladding and layers and all that over the last few days. Not because I oh-so-desperately wanted it to be a mint error, but because none of the suggestions rang true or seemed to fit. I would've eventually either given up and awaited for the info to find me or checked with a grader. If the first grader couldn't bring it then on to a second grader, and worked my way through middle- & high school if I had to. (Ha. Ha.)

    This is what I found and it's basically/exactly the same as mine. Haven't looked up "improperly annealed plan" yet, I need a screen break.



  • Ok. "PLAN" is apparently short for planchet. (I'm a noob to some terminology still).

    I'm starting to think that ED & PMD may be thrown around too quickly.

    @MarkW63: you could try to gold plate them too. It's be prettier. If you try to remove the nickel layer chemically, you lose too much detail, right?

    Here are the links that gave me a crash course over the last few minutes:

    Quick and light 3rd-party post:
    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/2017-d-new-jersey-ellis-island-improper-annealing.307775/

    Technically appealing (or appalling):
    http://www.error-ref.com/improper-annealing/

    A different 3rd-party post that led to the two above:
    https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/413221-what-is-this-improperly-annealed-planchet/

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, you're the expert. You tell us.

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