@RogerB said:
RE: "It was nice when Mint employees could take patterns for their personal collections like Charles Barber did for the St. Gaudens [sic] Indian Head Double Eagle."
Barber did not make pattern and experimental pieces for his personal collection. The pieces were ordered by the mint director - some at instruction from President Roosevelt. Barber, along with several other officers, was permitted to buy pieces that were not otherwise allocated to the President. This avoided having to melt the pieces to balance the gold bullion account.
In 1908 members of the Assay Commission were each offered one 1907 $10 Saint-Gaudens coin with periods on the reverse and knife rims. Only member William Ashbrook was interested and he bought all coins the others refused.
[See Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908 for details.]
I wrote “could take”, not “could make”, but it’s good to know the reasoning back then. If only cent for cent exchanges were allowed for the 1974-D aluminum cents and other patterns.
Understood. Barber had to get permission and pay for the metal content. he had many other patterns in his collection. (See the article on USpatterns.com.)
@RogerB said:
Understood. Barber had to get permission and pay for the metal content. he had many other patterns in his collection. (See the article on USpatterns.com.)
Good to know. Wish there was some kind of way to get patterns into the public these days. Seems like we're limited to waffled cancelled patterns these days.
By 1885 the demand had become excessive and the director ended routine pattern and experimental piece sales. Samples were intended for internal design review and engineering tests. Some got out as scrap, or were given to members of Congress, or businesses for testing in coin operated devices. Others were saved by engravers for their reference and Mint officers as souvenirs.
1871 Indian Princess Dollar in Silver - Judd-1139, PCGS PR66 POP 2/0 - Ex: Bass, Simpson
From Heritage:
The surfaces on both sides show a wonderful melange of steel-blue, sky-blue, magenta, and deep orange near the rims before ceding to rose, fuchsia, and honey-gold tones in the centers. There are simply no mentionable distractions, as long as one appreciates beautifully toned silver coins.
This is a "coin with everything": technical quality, great aesthetic beauty, high historic and numismatic interest, and a great provenance to not one, but two giants of numismatics. This piece is also tied for finest graded at both services.
1838 10C Ten Cent Die Trial, Judd-A1838-1, Pollock-3049, R.8 - PCGS MS64 - Ex: Simpson
Here's another Simpson pattern that I thought is neat. It looks like it's coming back to market after 14 years!
1838 10C Ten Cent Die Trial, Judd-A1838-1, Pollock-3049, R.8, MS64 PCGS. Ex: Simpson. Die trial for the Liberty Seated Dime, from an unfinished die with a single star placed between Liberty's head and her pole. White metal splasher. This is one of two similar pieces. One is the property of the Library Company of Philadelphia. This is the other -- the Judd plate coin. The flash around the border is differently shaped, confirming that it is, in fact, a second representative.
Each side exhibits light gray surfaces with hints of gold color. The fields are subdued with considerable brilliant luster. These splashers are extremely thin and light, and are often brittle, sometimes breaking into pieces if not handled extremely carefully. This piece has been exceptionally well taken care of.
@oih82w8 said:
It would be so cool if the pattern designs, not the actual ones themselves, of yesteryear became circulating coinage/currency of today!
Some of them are coming back such as Fraser's quarter obverse and reverse designs.
It would be certainly great to see more to have a mix of the old and the new.
If the government could not see the beauty of the designs 100+ years ago for use as regular coinage - why would today's bureaucrats (the same that bring you dollar coins that look like quarters) be able to do it today?
Nice though but ...?
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
@oih82w8 said:
It would be so cool if the pattern designs, not the actual ones themselves, of yesteryear became circulating coinage/currency of today!
Some of them are coming back such as Fraser's quarter obverse and reverse designs.
It would be certainly great to see more to have a mix of the old and the new.
If the government could not see the beauty of the designs 100+ years ago for use as regular coinage - why would today's bureaucrats (the same that bring you dollar coins that look like quarters) be able to do it today?
Nice though but ...?
I'm guessing part of it may not be that they couldn't see beauty in the designs but only one design could be used for many years, limiting the ability to use all but one design per denomination. We have no such limitation with circulation coinage now.
Comments
I wrote “could take”, not “could make”, but it’s good to know the reasoning back then. If only cent for cent exchanges were allowed for the 1974-D aluminum cents and other patterns.
Understood. Barber had to get permission and pay for the metal content. he had many other patterns in his collection. (See the article on USpatterns.com.)
Good to know. Wish there was some kind of way to get patterns into the public these days. Seems like we're limited to waffled cancelled patterns these days.
By 1885 the demand had become excessive and the director ended routine pattern and experimental piece sales. Samples were intended for internal design review and engineering tests. Some got out as scrap, or were given to members of Congress, or businesses for testing in coin operated devices. Others were saved by engravers for their reference and Mint officers as souvenirs.
Just ran across this one which looks nice. Classic eagle on a 2 cent coin.
Wow, love that two cents piece. Patterns are so intriguing. Our coins that "never were."
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Thread Revival
More dazzling patterns from Simpson coming up!
1871 Indian Princess Dollar in Silver - Judd-1139, PCGS PR66 POP 2/0 - Ex: Bass, Simpson
From Heritage:
1838 10C Ten Cent Die Trial, Judd-A1838-1, Pollock-3049, R.8 - PCGS MS64 - Ex: Simpson
Here's another Simpson pattern that I thought is neat. It looks like it's coming back to market after 14 years!
Ex: FUN Signature (Heritage, 1/2006), lot 4592.
The splasher in the OP just sold again for a healthy 68% profit!
Patterns is the word.
Maybe someone can use these photos as a maybe inline research.
A recent thread had me look up Goloid Dollars. Alas this is an 1879 and the thread was asking about 1880, but I still like this one a lot!
Sold at Heritage and Stack's for the same price!
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/34904107
ttt
Great timing @LanceNewmanOCC! I was already in the process of posting this when you ttted!
1869 Aluminum Double Eagle - Judd-785 - PCGS PR67 Deep Cameo POP 1/0 - Ex. Harry Wesley Bass Jr., Gaston Dibello
It's interesting that Harry passed away in 1998, so just over 20 years ago. I wonder if there was an internal agreement to wait 20 years.
1877 Half Union, Judd-1549, PCGS PR67 Brown - Ex. "Rudy" Sieck, Mark Feld, Bob R. Simpson
This copper pattern is unique in private hands now.
Of note, the provenance includes our own @MFeld!
It would be so cool if the pattern designs, not the actual ones themselves, of yesteryear became circulating coinage/currency of today!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Some of them are coming back such as Fraser's quarter obverse and reverse designs.
It would be certainly great to see more to have a mix of the old and the new.
If the government could not see the beauty of the designs 100+ years ago for use as regular coinage - why would today's bureaucrats (the same that bring you dollar coins that look like quarters) be able to do it today?
Nice though but ...?
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
I'm guessing part of it may not be that they couldn't see beauty in the designs but only one design could be used for many years, limiting the ability to use all but one design per denomination. We have no such limitation with circulation coinage now.
Good read gentlemen,
with a flash back even.
Huh ?
Thankyou.
David