So sorry to hear those scum drove you out of the biz, but I know what you mean dealing with certain public types after a career in public service (including LE). Although I will say that most public are really good people, just that 5% that ruins it for all! Are you continuing to deal online?
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Wow Joe what a bummer! It just sucks that bad guys gotta ruin it for those of us that REALLY enjoyed every minute of being in your shop and shootin' the breeze and listenin' to you strum and sing, and talk about coins a little too. I am so very glad to know that you are safe and respect your decision if you decide to close up, but - I will surely miss having you and your shop as my only "go to" B&M.
Seems like the same gang of con artists posted awhile back. I believe it's time for FBI to get involve due to organized interstate crime activities, https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices
What is the 5 finger discount?
and what is the box trick?
I am sure all of us are (hopefully) honest people and most of us have no idea what these terms mean.
What is the 5 finger discount?
and what is the box trick?
I am sure all of us are (hopefully) honest people and most of us have no idea what these terms mean.
S-T-E-A-L or as Walter Breen called it, G-R-E-E-D.
I was thinking the value was close to 10,000 Now where would a thief go to sell this gold for cash? People have been killed for less, so glad you're okay.
I will never understand what thinking process convinces these people that it OK do do this to another person. Sorry you were a victim of this evil thinking. Another nail in the coffin of trust. "Trust no one" should not be the new national motto.
The hero is the guy that gets up in the morning, unlocks the door to his business with his life savings on the line and serves the public. In an era of corporate handouts for the goliaths...the independent businessman stands alone.
Sure, better surveillance cameras are great. Maybe a Rottweiler or two and a barrel chested security man with a shot gun.
Truth is, it is the grind of buying gold coins for a 2 or 3% margin that sustains the coin dealer today. All goes right and you pick up a couple hundred dollars...goes wrong and you are out $10,000 of more. Really wrong and you become a statistic.
Whether to go forward should not be a decision made in the heat of a crisis.
What is the 5 finger discount?
and what is the box trick?
I am sure all of us are (hopefully) honest people and most of us have no idea what these terms mean.
5 finger discount is an idiom for theft.
The box trick is as described. The coin is put in the box but palmed so the box is missing contents
Let's get it right. "Five finger discount" specifically refers to shop lifting in a retail establishment.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@TwoSides2aCoin .... Really sorry to hear this Joe... I can understand your feelings... I hope you do not leave the hobby though. These guys will be caught, evidently they are doing it frequently. I hope your coins are recovered. Cheers, RickO
“If you’re at all suspicious, don’t show them anything. Show one item at a time, and if they’re interested in that item, you have to pay for that item, and once you show the one item, make sure you have it back in your hand before anything else goes on,” said Findlay, who also owns his own business, Certified Coins of Canada, in Angus, Ont. “When anybody wants to look at anything, it’s one item at a time.”
This is actually an old con artist trick. I used to work at a high end camera shop back in the 1970's selling Nikons, etc, and one of the first things my boss taught me was basically what was stated above in the article.
I posted a mention of this story over on the coin dealers network. One of them responded with this:
"Re: Travelling gypsies. They are hitting coin dealers, pawnshops, jewelers and even banks all over the country. Several were arrested here in Iowa a couple weeks ago trying to play their short change games at a wal mart. Several of them were wanted in the UK and Canada too. They are professionals. In one jewelry store in wisconsin they used their kids. Their kid pulled down his pants and took a leak in a plant in the jewelry store's lobby. Of course all the employees came out to see what was going on and while they were all distracted grandma gypsy was in the back cleaning out the safe! When they come in you must simply say "We are not selling coins today we are only displaying!" Never get coins out in front of them. Then take out your phone and take their pictures while saying "Oh I love your outfit I need to take a picture of that!" Lol they will freak out and leave. And pay attention to the numismatic crime information center webpage and the jewelers security alliance page for all updates. Need good security, surveillance and good safes that are closed when not in use. Same with showcases. Always locked."
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Really sorry to hear this, 2Sides. Hope this pair slips up and gets nabbed with your items returned.
Capt. Henway's post illustrates the range of tricks these crooks can use to get a seller distracted. A clever bunch with a lot of experience, I'm sure.
As I said before, bullion buyers tend to come in alone and be discrete. An alleged bullion buyer with a large crowd should be automatically suspect.
Show only one item at a time and put it out of reach before showing another item.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
These people must be incredibly good. From what we heard hear it's a group of "gypsies" and boy are they skilled. Same story every time...a crew with similar MO were in Sioux City last Spring.
Sorry to hear you were burned by a slide of hand theft. The video capture is ok at best, I would personally upgrade, jmo.
Hope the claims process is a smooth one, best of luck.
@ricko said: @TwoSides2aCoin .... Really sorry to hear this Joe... I can understand your feelings... I hope you do not leave the hobby though. These guys will be caught, evidently they are doing it frequently. I hope your coins are recovered. Cheers, RickO
I'm in for the long haul RickO.
I mean the hobby. As a business , times have changed. It's all good.
These guys don't care what you do. They pay one hundred thousand dollars bail in cash and skip town. It's called the cost of doing business "their business"
My brother had a Sunoco "show station" with a beautiful store. They came in they 4 of them with children they distracted him, they robbed the open safe in the rear( $12,000) of the store while one talked about antacids, children running with mommy around the store, He realized what they did, bad timing on their part as my brother was about to make the deposits at that hour. My brother pursued them up the NYS thruway at high speeds and recklessly, I DON'T ADVISE, As he pursued he had phoned the police, the NYS troopers intercepted them, they were arrested. They posted bail and never returned to Albany, NY to reclaim the $100,000 bail. The DA said; "that's just their way" and "it's the cost they pay to do business"
I had a Doctor when I was younger he was part "gypsy" he would say and laugh, HE MEANT IT, for real Mike he would tell me from Romania. Many times this man gave me services for "free" it's just the way some people are.
Try not to flame this. It's that your original post triggered.
Comments
Really sorry to hear that. At least you are safe, though in shock and disillusioned.
@Raybo ...... You R BACK!
I've been missing U!!!!!!
I’m glad you are okay. Sorry to hear about the loss.
So sorry to hear those scum drove you out of the biz, but I know what you mean dealing with certain public types after a career in public service (including LE). Although I will say that most public are really good people, just that 5% that ruins it for all! Are you continuing to deal online?
Wow Joe what a bummer! It just sucks that bad guys gotta ruin it for those of us that REALLY enjoyed every minute of being in your shop and shootin' the breeze and listenin' to you strum and sing, and talk about coins a little too. I am so very glad to know that you are safe and respect your decision if you decide to close up, but - I will surely miss having you and your shop as my only "go to" B&M.
I hate thieves! Hopefully you'll be able to recover your coins and the thieves go to jail!
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
Seems like the same gang of con artists posted awhile back. I believe it's time for FBI to get involve due to organized interstate crime activities,
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices
S-T-E-A-L or as Walter Breen called it, G-R-E-E-D.
Sorry to hear.
I was thinking the value was close to 10,000 Now where would a thief go to sell this gold for cash? People have been killed for less, so glad you're okay.
So how are they getting their hands on the coins? Do you pack the box and then they look in the box or?
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Glad you weren’t harmed. Get the police involved — you have a good picture of the two scumbags.
I will never understand what thinking process convinces these people that it OK do do this to another person. Sorry you were a victim of this evil thinking. Another nail in the coffin of trust. "Trust no one" should not be the new national motto.
Wow... glad no one was hurt! I hope you can recover the stolen pieces...
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Damned bad news, sorry to hear it, hope they catch them and get your stuff back.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
The hero is the guy that gets up in the morning, unlocks the door to his business with his life savings on the line and serves the public. In an era of corporate handouts for the goliaths...the independent businessman stands alone.
Sure, better surveillance cameras are great. Maybe a Rottweiler or two and a barrel chested security man with a shot gun.
Truth is, it is the grind of buying gold coins for a 2 or 3% margin that sustains the coin dealer today. All goes right and you pick up a couple hundred dollars...goes wrong and you are out $10,000 of more. Really wrong and you become a statistic.
Whether to go forward should not be a decision made in the heat of a crisis.
Glad that you were not hurt, Twosides.
Very sorry to hear this. Maybe they took them up the street?
Canadiancoinnews.com/unscrupulous-group-stealing-canadian-dealers
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Sorry I'm on my phone if anyone wants to fix that link. Its an article about a very similar thing happening across Canada.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
https://canadiancoinnews.com/unscrupulous-group-stealing-canadian-dealers/
5 finger discount is an idiom for theft.
The box trick is as described. The coin is put in the box but palmed so the box is missing contents
Let's get it right. "Five finger discount" specifically refers to shop lifting in a retail establishment.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yikes... I hope they catch them and you recover your coins!
Thanks brothers and sisters, in the coin world. I have my doubts about recovering anything. But in case anyone lacks faith.... there is always Karma.
@TwoSides2aCoin .... Really sorry to hear this Joe... I can understand your feelings... I hope you do not leave the hobby though. These guys will be caught, evidently they are doing it frequently. I hope your coins are recovered. Cheers, RickO
“If you’re at all suspicious, don’t show them anything. Show one item at a time, and if they’re interested in that item, you have to pay for that item, and once you show the one item, make sure you have it back in your hand before anything else goes on,” said Findlay, who also owns his own business, Certified Coins of Canada, in Angus, Ont. “When anybody wants to look at anything, it’s one item at a time.”
This is actually an old con artist trick. I used to work at a high end camera shop back in the 1970's selling Nikons, etc, and one of the first things my boss taught me was basically what was stated above in the article.
I posted a mention of this story over on the coin dealers network. One of them responded with this:
"Re: Travelling gypsies. They are hitting coin dealers, pawnshops, jewelers and even banks all over the country. Several were arrested here in Iowa a couple weeks ago trying to play their short change games at a wal mart. Several of them were wanted in the UK and Canada too. They are professionals. In one jewelry store in wisconsin they used their kids. Their kid pulled down his pants and took a leak in a plant in the jewelry store's lobby. Of course all the employees came out to see what was going on and while they were all distracted grandma gypsy was in the back cleaning out the safe! When they come in you must simply say "We are not selling coins today we are only displaying!" Never get coins out in front of them. Then take out your phone and take their pictures while saying "Oh I love your outfit I need to take a picture of that!" Lol they will freak out and leave. And pay attention to the numismatic crime information center webpage and the jewelers security alliance page for all updates. Need good security, surveillance and good safes that are closed when not in use. Same with showcases. Always locked."
Really sorry to hear this, 2Sides. Hope this pair slips up and gets nabbed with your items returned.
Capt. Henway's post illustrates the range of tricks these crooks can use to get a seller distracted. A clever bunch with a lot of experience, I'm sure.
That sucks! Hope you recover you lost items soon
Sorry for loss, glad you were not harmed
As I said before, bullion buyers tend to come in alone and be discrete. An alleged bullion buyer with a large crowd should be automatically suspect.
Show only one item at a time and put it out of reach before showing another item.
Sorry to hear this Joe.
I hope they catch them and they are prosecuted to the fullest extent.
That is a serious loss.
as long as your alright the cops will deal with the hosers i mean losers
These people must be incredibly good. From what we heard hear it's a group of "gypsies" and boy are they skilled. Same story every time...a crew with similar MO were in Sioux City last Spring.
So sorry to hear this, Joe. You and I interacted on the Forums back in 2015 or so, you are a prince of a guy.
Hang in there. It's an awful feeling getting robbed.
Thieves should hang
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Thanks PF!
I didn't know that you liked..............anything about me.
MUAHH back at you my friend!
There has to be a way to "play" the "players"; entertain them while calling law enforcement; get a warrant to search their vehicle(s).
Sorry to hear you were burned by a slide of hand theft. The video capture is ok at best, I would personally upgrade, jmo.
Hope the claims process is a smooth one, best of luck.
Like in the old days ? For better ?
Or modern times ? For Wirz ( what's worse ? )
Just cut off a thumb and forefinger.
I'm in for the long haul RickO.
I mean the hobby. As a business , times have changed. It's all good.
Joe, I'm really sorry to hear this. I'm glad that you didn't get assaulted. I hope you're right about karma.
I knew it would happen.
These guys don't care what you do. They pay one hundred thousand dollars bail in cash and skip town. It's called the cost of doing business "their business"
My brother had a Sunoco "show station" with a beautiful store. They came in they 4 of them with children they distracted him, they robbed the open safe in the rear( $12,000) of the store while one talked about antacids, children running with mommy around the store, He realized what they did, bad timing on their part as my brother was about to make the deposits at that hour. My brother pursued them up the NYS thruway at high speeds and recklessly, I DON'T ADVISE, As he pursued he had phoned the police, the NYS troopers intercepted them, they were arrested. They posted bail and never returned to Albany, NY to reclaim the $100,000 bail. The DA said; "that's just their way" and "it's the cost they pay to do business"
I had a Doctor when I was younger he was part "gypsy" he would say and laugh, HE MEANT IT, for real Mike he would tell me from Romania. Many times this man gave me services for "free" it's just the way some people are.
Try not to flame this. It's that your original post triggered.
The Islam punishment probably deters more than ours (cut off their hand).
Closing up shop and going internet/shows seems fraught with risks as well.
I hope they find these guys, but it sounds like they fly in and out quickly and me be foreigners.
Thanks people. Soldi, after reading your post, I changed the thread title. Great insight.