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Has anyone seen one of these before? (1885 $10 cancelled die splasher)

I don't even recall where I purchased these, but was cleaning out the safety deposit box and stumbled across these. Was never able to find anything out about these. Does anyone know anything about these?


Comments

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't have an answer for you, but I like it, pretty neat !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fascinating!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018 4:23PM

    I'll go out on a limb and say that I'm only 99.9% counterfeit as it is IMHO not close to "MQ" (very old B) and long-forgotten shorthand for "Mint Quality") and I don't care whose collection it came out of either. :p

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018 5:14PM

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Insider2 said:
    I'll go out on a limb and say that I'm only 99.9% counterfeit as it is IMHO not close to "MQ" (very old B) and long-forgotten shorthand for "Mint Quality") and I don't care whose collection it came out of either. :p

    You should not call yourself 99.9% counterfeit.......

    You're right, I'm 99.9% sure the piece is 100% counterfeit. Some say that indicates a "No Decision." :)

    PS Tell us more about the move to Colorado. What others did you train? How long did Hunter stick around? One day I may post some things that happened in the "Closed" Board meeting in NY, why the ANACS was moved, and the "Mysterious Breakin" scenario devised to discredit a former employee. All left out of the ANA's Centennial History. :wink:

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Insider2 said:
    I'll go out on a limb and say that I'm only 99.9% counterfeit as it is IMHO not close to "MQ" (very old B) and long-forgotten shorthand for "Mint Quality") and I don't care whose collection it came out of either. :p

    You should not call yourself 99.9% counterfeit.......

    You're right, I'm 99.9% sure the piece is 100% counterfeit. Some say that indicates a "No Decision." :)

    Can a coin be less than 100% counterfeit? :)

  • MrLeeMrLee Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭

    Looks like somebody used X-cancelled dies to make their own coins. Used dies are now ground down.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018 5:32PM

    @MWallace said:

    @Insider2 said:

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Insider2 said:
    I'll go out on a limb and say that I'm only 99.9% counterfeit as it is IMHO not close to "MQ" (very old B) and long-forgotten shorthand for "Mint Quality") and I don't care whose collection it came out of either. :p

    You should not call yourself 99.9% counterfeit.......

    You're right, I'm 99.9% sure the piece is 100% counterfeit. Some say that indicates a "No Decision." :)

    Can a coin be less than 100% counterfeit? :)

    It's an inside code devised by me and approved by Hoskins. I still use it today to pass my opinion to the finalizer on the grading screen. This only applies to experienced authenticators as one man's 100% genuine is an authenticators 100% counterfeit.

    Take any coin...then assign a number in my scale:

    10, 9, 8 indicates those that are 100% genuine and "self-authenticating" the minute you see them. We don't use #'s for these. For those obvious, and crude "across-the-room:" fakes, 1, and 2 are also #'s that apply but are never used.

    That leaves 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. A "5" is the number given to a coin whose authenticity cannot be determined often after weeks of research, consultant opinions and even a museum visit (Dunbarton Oaks & Smithsonian in DC, ANS in NYC). That was one of the main reasons ANACS was located in DC! IMO, the move to CO was stupid. As for the rest:

    The #4: Possibly C/F
    The #3: Probably C/F
    The #6: Possibly OK
    The #7: Probably OK

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @MWallace said:

    @Insider2 said:

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Insider2 said:
    I'll go out on a limb and say that I'm only 99.9% counterfeit as it is IMHO not close to "MQ" (very old B) and long-forgotten shorthand for "Mint Quality") and I don't care whose collection it came out of either. :p

    You should not call yourself 99.9% counterfeit.......

    You're right, I'm 99.9% sure the piece is 100% counterfeit. Some say that indicates a "No Decision." :)

    Can a coin be less than 100% counterfeit? :)

    It's an inside code devised by me and approved by Hoskins. I still use it today to pass my opinion to the finalizer on the grading screen. This only applies to experienced authenticators as one man's 100% genuine is an authenticators 100% counterfeit.

    Take any coin...then assign a number in my scale:

    10, 9, 8 indicates those that are 100% genuine and "self-authenticating" the minute you see them. We don't use #'s for these. For those obvious, and crude "across-the-room:" fakes, 1, and 2 are also #'s that apply but are never used.

    That leaves 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. A "5" is the number given to a coin whose authenticity cannot be determined often after weeks of research, consultant opinions and even a museum visit (Dunbarton Oaks & Smithsonian in DC, ANS in NYC). That was one of the main reasons ANACS was located in DC! IMO, the move to CO was stupid. As for the rest:

    The #4: Possibly C/F
    The #3: Probably C/F
    The #6: Possibly OK
    The #7: Probably OK

    Still, whether an "expert" can determine or not if a coin is genuine or counterfeit, or even if they're wrong, the coin itself is still either 100% genuine or 100% counterfeit.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018 7:02PM

    @MWallace said: "Still, whether an "expert" can determine or not if a coin is genuine or counterfeit, or even if they're wrong, the coin itself is still either 100% genuine or 100% counterfeit."

    That's correct and it is also "UNSLABBED!" LOL. :p

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think real, but not MInt strikes.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @StrikeOutXXX said:
    Are they not Russ Logan restrikes?

    http://uspatterns.com/18leadtrialf.html

    Oops, I see you've already found it. Even the cancel appears to match the image.

  • StrikeOutXXXStrikeOutXXX Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka - was that your write-up uspatterns.com on these pieces? The cancellations certainly seem to match, just curious if you were the one to see them in-hand what your thoughts were.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    "You Suck Award" - February, 2015

    Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting pieces... real or not, they certainly provoke discussion... Cheers, RickO

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I owned these on several different planchet sizes and composition. A total of 15 pcs. Go to uspatterns and search cancelled die strikes, and one of the pictures show one I had on a silver dollar planchet. Russ Logan struck a half dozen. I bought the 15 pcs from the late Henry Hilgard. He struck a batch and I sold them.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • zas107zas107 Posts: 822 ✭✭✭

    @StrikeOutXXX said:
    Are they not Russ Logan restrikes?

    http://uspatterns.com/18leadtrialf.html

    They are! Thank you so much! Because of your help I was able to figure out that I purchased them from JKcoins in 2009. :)

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019 4:22PM

    @Byers said:
    I owned these on several different planchet sizes and composition. A total of 15 pcs. Go to uspatterns and search cancelled die strikes, and one of the pictures show one I had on a silver dollar planchet. Russ Logan struck a half dozen. I bought the 15 pcs from the late Henry Hilgard. He struck a batch and I sold them.

    Great info on these. Thanks for the attribution to Russ Logan and Henry Hilgard.

    I'm fascinated by these and think it would be great to document their origins more.

    Here's a link to the USPatterns.com page:

    http://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/candiestrik.html

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :):):):)

  • zas107zas107 Posts: 822 ✭✭✭

    Late bump but does anyone happen to have an idea of value on these? I saw a brass one on ebay that was bid up to over 900 recently, but for some reason the listing got nuked.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2020 1:15AM

    @Byers said:
    I owned these on several different planchet sizes and composition. A total of 15 pcs. Go to uspatterns and search cancelled die strikes, and one of the pictures show one I had on a silver dollar planchet. Russ Logan struck a half dozen. I bought the 15 pcs from the late Henry Hilgard. He struck a batch and I sold them.

    So did Russ strike 6 and Henry strike 15?

    The one attributed to you on USPatterns.com is a silver half dollar planchet: "The illustrated examples are in silver, struck on a half dollar planchet, with both sides shown below [...] The silver piece is courtesy of Michael Byers". Did you also have a dollar planchet piece?

    https://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/18leadtrialf.html

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2020 10:03PM

    @zas107 said:

    @StrikeOutXXX said:
    Are they not Russ Logan restrikes?

    http://uspatterns.com/18leadtrialf.html

    They are! Thank you so much! Because of your help I was able to figure out that I purchased them from JKcoins in 2009. :)

    Would that be Jeremy Katz of JK Coin Photography?

    https://www.jkcoinphotography.com/

    Since there are so few of these, it would be great to document the history of each of these pieces.

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