One of the coolest coins that I've gotten to play with in a LONG time...

Regulated · October 30, 2018 8:00PM

I've been working with an exceptional group of Pioneer Gold lately - probably the coolest piece in the bunch is this Cincinnati $10 overs truck on a J.S. Ormsby $10 - to give you an idea of how rare it is, there are just three Cincinnati $10s and three Ormsby $10s in private hands. Either coin is at least as rare as a 1913 Nickel, and neither one has traded publicly in over a decade, which is a pretty interesting thing to think about. The best of both worlds:

Paradisefound · October 30, 2018 8:18PM

OMG What a treasure! It is definitely a piece you'll keep for generations to come. Congrats!

Regulated · October 30, 2018 8:19PM

I'm just working on the collection. I don't get to keep million dollar coins...

Paradisefound · October 30, 2018 8:23PM

ctf_error_coins · October 30, 2018 8:23PM

Wow, I was mining gold in California a few days ago and found nice gold.

That is an exceptional piece!!!

coinsarefun · October 30, 2018 8:24PM

Besides it’s great rarity it’s a spectacular piece. Die cracks, design and that is one cool eagle.
Just a fantastic piece and I envy you being able to hold these great coins!

TomB · October 30, 2018 8:31PM

Whoa!

AUandAG · October 30, 2018 8:32PM

WOW, is all I can say.........................

bob

KellenCoin · October 30, 2018 8:39PM

Are you going to write about this in your new CoinWeek column?

Regulated · October 30, 2018 8:43PM

We'll see - I have a few things I'm already working on first.

Stooge · October 30, 2018 9:05PM

Very cool to see such rare coins. Thanks for showing.

ilikemonsters · October 30, 2018 9:05PM

Wow that's so cool. I'm glad I've finally gotten to see a photo of it. Honestly, I didn't know this even existed when you told me about it. The fields are so original. I'm in love.

Walkerfan · October 30, 2018 9:22PM

Beyond rare. I never even knew of its existence. Whenever I open one of your threads, there is always something cool and educational. Thanks for sharing.

lkeigwin · October 30, 2018 9:39PM

Another reason why so many of us follow this forum. The exotic coins that turn up here are staggering. Holy cow.
Lance.

BlindedByEgo · October 30, 2018 9:44PM

It would be an honor handling what is fundamentally a museum piece, Amazing California gold.

DCW · October 31, 2018 3:11AM

Anytime somebody like @Regulated titles a thread "One of the coolest coins that I've gotten to play with in a LONG time..." I know we're in for a treat!
So, I assume "Cincinnati Mining & Trading Co." was simply the name of the business and did not actually operate in Ohio? What is the backstory on this piece?
Thanks for posting !

messydesk · October 31, 2018 6:23AM

Exceedingly cool!

Here's a higher grade, later die stage specimen from the Smithsonian collection that is not an overstrike.

1630Boston · October 31, 2018 6:28AM

Spectacular item

ricko · October 31, 2018 6:48AM

Very impressive coin....Rare, and gold....Must be quite a thrill to hold a coin like that in hand... Cheers, RickO

CaptHenway · October 31, 2018 6:58AM

@DCW said:
Anytime somebody like @Regulated titles a thread "One of the coolest coins that I've gotten to play with in a LONG time..." I know we're in for a treat!
So, I assume "Cincinnati Mining & Trading Co." was simply the name of the business and did not actually operate in Ohio? What is the backstory on this piece?
Thanks for posting !

Yes, like the "Massachusetts and California Company" piece right after it in the Redbook.

Lakesammman · October 31, 2018 7:08AM

Wow - now that is one cool piece!

Makes one wonder what else is in the collection.....

Oldhoopster · October 31, 2018 7:22AM

I know what's going on my Christmas wish list (assuming someone in my family wins the lottery)

Rittenhouse · October 31, 2018 7:31AM

@Regulated said:
I've been working with an exceptional group of Pioneer Gold lately - probably the coolest piece in the bunch is this Cincinnati $10 overs truck on a J.S. Ormsby $10 - to give you an idea of how rare it is, there are just three Cincinnati $10s and three Ormsby $10s in private hands. Either coin is at least as rare as a 1913 Nickel, and neither one has traded publicly in over a decade, which is a pretty interesting thing to think about. The best of both worlds:

You showed me that at Baltimore. I said, "Oooo, cool, I'll give ya 20 for it," remember? An absolutely amazing piece and far more stunning in-hand than the photo.

How about posting the SP VAM58? That one gets my vote as the most awesome Morgan I've ever seen.

Regulated · October 31, 2018 7:54AM

The "California Mining and Trading Company of Cincinnati" was formed in Ohio in early 1849, and left for the gold fields in spring of that year. They arrived in Sacramento in the Summer of '49, as evidenced by several newspaper accounts, as well as data in the 1850 Census.

It has been reported (entirely in the absence of evidence) that Cincinnati Company coins were struck by Broderick and Kohler, who we know are responsible for the MIner's Bank $10s. I personally believe that the tendency to claim that anything remotely mysterious was struck by Broderick and Kohler makes no sense, especially since the fabric and edges of the Cincinnati & Pacific Company coins that are attributed to them are nothing at all like the Miner's Bank pieces, which we know they struck.

I put the following uniface pattern away a couple years ago:

coinsarefun · October 31, 2018 8:11AM

I need to sell all my coins and tokens and buy one example. May have to mortgage the house
too, but it will be worth it

No Headlights · October 31, 2018 9:48AM

Did they keep mintage figures on these coins? Beautiful coin

crazyhounddog · October 31, 2018 9:50AM

Incredible

Regulated · October 31, 2018 9:55AM

They didn't keep mintage figures.

It's unlikely that many were struck - in October of 1849, the New Orleans Mint got a Moffat $10 and a Miner's Bank $10, assayed them and published that the coins did not contain $10 worth of gold (I think they had $9.78 and $9.65 respectively) - the the 2.2 - 3.5% discrepancy touched off the first in a series of public controversies surrounding private coins, and by early 1850, the bullion brokers (who were behind many of the editorials that got people wound up) started paying 80% of face on private gold when they could. This effectively ended a bunch of the first companies, including Miner's Bank, Ormsby & Company, and presumably Cincinnati M&T.

The irony is that the 2-3% seigniorage was quite reasonable, as the private coins were just about the only available/adequate means of exchange...

OldEastside · October 31, 2018 10:05AM

That's sweet

Steve

asheland · October 31, 2018 10:42AM

Super cool and I love the color!

Treashunt · October 31, 2018 10:44AM

@TomB said:
Whoa!

ditto!!!!!!!!!!

DollarAfterDollar · October 31, 2018 10:50AM

Very cool piece of Americana.

OriginalDan · October 31, 2018 3:00PM

@messydesk said:
Exceedingly cool!

Here's a higher grade, later die stage specimen from the Smithsonian collection that is not an overstrike.

This past weekend I was able to view both the OP overstuck coin and the Smithsonian piece. The first and last time that will happen in my lifetime. Amazing stuff!

CaptHenway · October 31, 2018 3:09PM

@Regulated said:
They didn't keep mintage figures.

It's unlikely that many were struck - in October of 1849, the New Orleans Mint got a Moffat $10 and a Miner's Bank $10, assayed them and published that the coins did not contain $10 worth of gold (I think they had $9.83 and $9.67 respectively) - the the 1.7 - 3.3% discrepancy touched off the first in a series of public controversies surrounding private coins, and by early 1850, the bullion brokers (who were behind many of the editorials that got people wound up) started paying 80% of face on private gold when they could. This effectively ended a bunch of the first companies, including Miner's Bank, Ormsby & Company, and presumably Cincinnati M&T.

The irony is that the 2-3% seigniorage was quite reasonable, as the private coins were just about the only available/adequate means of exchange...

Had they made the coins full weight and then kept 3% of the finished product for their services that would have worked, but debasing the coins, even if minor and unintentional, doomed them.

crazyhounddog · October 31, 2018 3:09PM

@Regulated said:
I've been working with an exceptional group of Pioneer Gold lately - probably the coolest piece in the bunch is this Cincinnati $10 overs truck on a J.S. Ormsby $10 - to give you an idea of how rare it is, there are just three Cincinnati $10s and three Ormsby $10s in private hands. Either coin is at least as rare as a 1913 Nickel, and neither one has traded publicly in over a decade, which is a pretty interesting thing to think about. The best of both worlds:

I had to come back for a second look. The design of this piece is haunting for me I like it THAT much. The old Indian design is so cool I'm drooling