Filled 5-cent dies. Can you help the Coiner find a solution?
RogerB
Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
The following letter complains about filled 5-cent coin dies and mentioned some of the Chief Coiner's unsuccessful attempts to correct the problem. Can members suggest a cause (or causes) and a remedy?
"Mint of the United States at Philadelphia, PA.
Coiner’s Department
January 6, 1887
Hon. Daniel M. Fox,
Superintendent
Sir,
I have the honor to state that the bronze cent blanks to be furnished by Mr. Warthen are not supplied in sufficient quantities and rapidly enough to supply the needs of our operations and to meet the demands of the public.
We are having considerable difficulty with the nickel 5-cent blanks supplied by Mr. Warthen at the coining presses. The blanks are cleaned in the usual way, and the trouble arises in coining filling up the dies with a foreign matter causing much delay and extra labor. We have resorted to several expedients to overcome this difficulty by re-cleaning the blanks and by dipping in hot sulphuric acid after cleaning, but without much benefit.
The dollars, dimes and cents are riddled and dried in the same kind of saw dust, so that it may not be claimed that this is at fault.
Very respectfully,
William S. Steel, Coiner"
[RG104 E-17 box 2]
Comments
Interesting, the use of sulphuric acid seems excessive
Steve
Especially hot sulfuric acid -- which was used in 1887 in refining.
I dip all my coins in hot sulphuric acid! And my donuts!
Acids are commonly used to clean strip in metals fabrication. Sounds crazy, but the acid is dilute, typically a few percent. It's great at cleaning oxidation.
As to Roger's question, I'd hazard a pure guess (and I do mean pure guess) that the planchet mfg used some kind of waxy die lubricant and the mint was having a bear of a time getting it off.
I donut think that is a good idea........................
Pete
Always cool to see language that is from a different era.
Maybe the blanks were mixed with doughnut dough by the Mint's dough-boys and girl guides better known a "sprinkles?"
Keep guessing -- the answer is out there.
Maybe Mr. Warthen's blanks were the problem.
Warthen was not the only supplier of CuNi blanks, although the letter specifically refers to his products.
Was the annealing and tumbling process included in the “blanks are cleaned in the usual way” ?
Did they have the blank to planchet process back then to raise the edges for the conversion?
Did this terminology apply then?
If this process was not in place, as a solution I would recommend the “planchet making” process outlined in cherrypickers guide.
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
I'm struck (no pun intended) by the reference to "Mr. Warthen." Starting in 1865 (3-cent nickel), nickel blanks were supplied by Joseph Wharton. It would be a tremendous coincidence if the supplier at the time of writing this letter had been switched to someone else with such a similar name.
My guess is that the letter writer got the name wrong.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
Not sure if they did hardness tests on their blanks. Possibly over annealed (too soft)? It sounds like they eliminated the possibility of dirty surfaces.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Based on your question (in the OP), I am assuming (always dangerous) there has been no follow up documentation to this issue.... So, in light of that, I would hazard a guess that perhaps the supplier coated the metal with a substance to delay/prevent oxidation, making the metals unattractive - not realizing the effect on the dies. Cheers, RickO
must of been too soft or a reaction to arsenic
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Cent blanks from the same supplier were OK. The five-cent blanks received the same treatment as bronze cents, yet caused the dies to fill.
Anyone have an 1886 or 1887 5-cent coin struck from filled dies they could post?