Home Precious Metals

The new norm: 800pt Dow drop gets hardly a mention

2»

Comments

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @VanHalen said:
    To wit: The bottom 70 percent of U.S. households have a net worth of less than $100,000, and they own less than 9 percent of the total U.S. wealth. US ECONOMY> ECONOMY STATS> KIMBERLY AMADEO>June 22, 2018

    Those numbers are also aided by stats like this...

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-family-income-in-the-us/

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:
    To wit: The bottom 70 percent of U.S. households have a net worth of less than $100,000, and they own less than 9 percent of the total U.S. wealth. US ECONOMY> ECONOMY STATS> KIMBERLY AMADEO>June 22, 2018

    Was there ever a time in America when those stats were markedly different?

    Wealth inequality has widened by a large margin over the past 25 years and continues unabated.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @VanHalen said:

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:
    To wit: The bottom 70 percent of U.S. households have a net worth of less than $100,000, and they own less than 9 percent of the total U.S. wealth. US ECONOMY> ECONOMY STATS> KIMBERLY AMADEO>June 22, 2018

    Was there ever a time in America when those stats were markedly different?

    Wealth inequality has widened by a large margin over the past 25 years and continues unabated.

    It's not the economies fault if poor people have 50% more kids than wealthier people.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:
    To wit: The bottom 70 percent of U.S. households have a net worth of less than $100,000, and they own less than 9 percent of the total U.S. wealth. US ECONOMY> ECONOMY STATS> KIMBERLY AMADEO>June 22, 2018

    Was there ever a time in America when those stats were markedly different?

    Wealth inequality has widened by a large margin over the past 25 years and continues unabated.

    It's not the economies fault if poor people have 50% more kids than wealthier people.

    wealth inequality has nothing to do with the number of kids and everything to do with greed.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:
    To wit: The bottom 70 percent of U.S. households have a net worth of less than $100,000, and they own less than 9 percent of the total U.S. wealth. US ECONOMY> ECONOMY STATS> KIMBERLY AMADEO>June 22, 2018

    Was there ever a time in America when those stats were markedly different?

    Wealth inequality has widened by a large margin over the past 25 years and continues unabated.

    It's not the economies fault if poor people have 50% more kids than wealthier people.

    It is true that lower income/wealth households are larger than the U.S. average. An example: a two-parent family with four children would be low-income even with an annual income of $50,000. A common situation in the U.S. as you know.

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:
    To wit: The bottom 70 percent of U.S. households have a net worth of less than $100,000, and they own less than 9 percent of the total U.S. wealth. US ECONOMY> ECONOMY STATS> KIMBERLY AMADEO>June 22, 2018

    Was there ever a time in America when those stats were markedly different?

    Wealth inequality has widened by a large margin over the past 25 years and continues unabated.

    It's not the economies fault if poor people have 50% more kids than wealthier people.

    wealth inequality has nothing to do with the number of kids and everything to do with greed.

    Indeed. It certainly is no fault of the kids. I live not far from Chicago and am saddened by the situation many children there endure.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2018 2:20AM

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:
    To wit: The bottom 70 percent of U.S. households have a net worth of less than $100,000, and they own less than 9 percent of the total U.S. wealth. US ECONOMY> ECONOMY STATS> KIMBERLY AMADEO>June 22, 2018

    Was there ever a time in America when those stats were markedly different?

    Wealth inequality has widened by a large margin over the past 25 years and continues unabated.

    It's not the economies fault if poor people have 50% more kids than wealthier people.

    wealth inequality has nothing to do with the number of kids and everything to do with greed.

    Then number of lower income folk is growing faster due in large part to the poor having more kids.

    The gap will continue to widen even if all income brackets grow at the same rate due to simple mathematics and compounding.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2018 3:47AM

    Then number of lower income folk is growing faster due in large part to the poor having more kids.

    The social engineering and dependencies on gov.com that promote that promote disincentives to work aren't just bad ideas, they are malevolent.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can't believe how many people live in the moment. Stocks and markets fluctuate, always have and always will. If you think you can make money timing the ups and downs you are a day trader. I don't know one day trader that succeeded in the long term.
    Oh, the DOW is up 480 points today....... lol

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I admit , I live in the moment. Yesterday is so retro and tomorrow doesn't get here until today's over.

  • USASoccerUSASoccer Posts: 445 ✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:
    To wit: The bottom 70 percent of U.S. households have a net worth of less than $100,000, and they own less than 9 percent of the total U.S. wealth. US ECONOMY> ECONOMY STATS> KIMBERLY AMADEO>June 22, 2018

    Those numbers are also aided by stats like this...

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-family-income-in-the-us/

    With stats like these I can see why some people would promote socialism.

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Boy, on days like today... :D

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yah, taking a beating. Set back a few months the past week.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:
    Yah, taking a beating. Set back a few months the past week.

    You shoulda had insurance.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,379 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018 5:36AM

    We are real close to a 10% drop since the start of this thread. Hope it stops in 'correction' range here...although this is what, the 3rd one this year. Waste of a year for a lot of the longs.

  • bluelobsterbluelobster Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭

    The XBI has already dropped 20% into bear market territory. You always need a good chunk of cash in your account to trade stocks within indexes with that kind of volatility or you can get crushed quickly.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In the past eight days, $4 trillion has bee wiped off from what had been record high values.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, Record. High. Values.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    In the past eight days, $4 trillion has bee wiped off from what had been record high values.

    That's about how much was wiped out in gold over the last 7 years, no?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    which one is on the way up and which one is on the way down. LOL

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One is where it was 4 months ago while the other is where it was 8 years ago. Seems like a question even you can answer. Lol

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    cycles at work. Boom and bust thanks to your FED.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    cycles at work. Boom and bust thanks to your FED.

    Beautiful and so easy even a caveman can do it.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2018 3:51AM

    At least the brokers and financial advisors can still collect their "cut" of your money. There's that, whether the market goes up or down. Churn baby, churn.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    At least the brokers and financial advisors can still collect their "cut" of your money. There's that, whether the market goes up or down. Churn baby, churn.

    Unlike precious metals dealers, who work for free?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unlike precious metals dealers, who work for free?

    Let me know if you have a good precious metal dealer who works for free.

    I don't keep my PMs captive in some precious metal dealer's office or "on account" somewhere. Do you?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You seemed to be referring to commissions, fees, and the like ("their cut") that financial asset market makers collect on transactions, and i was referring to similar (if not far larger) percentage that bullion market makers collect in return for providing liquidity of the assets, buying and selling. Neither works for free, and if we don't think their services are "worth" it, we, as thinking beings do not pay them, either one, do we?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2018 12:58PM

    @Baley said:

    @jmski52 said:
    At least the brokers and financial advisors can still collect their "cut" of your money. There's that, whether the market goes up or down. Churn baby, churn.

    Unlike precious metals dealers, who work for free?

    Or anyone who has a business, including hospitals, waiters, PCGS, gas stations, electric companies, charities, consultants, ect.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,894 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pigs get slaughtered, what goes up must come down, buy low sell high. Fairly simple. I certainly have some skin in the ponzi scheme but glad to be diversified. Only surprise here is that the metals are not moving. Oh well, stack on!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,121 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Only surprise here is that the metals are not moving."

    Why? Is there one good reason why metals should be moving up at this time? Or continue trading in a 20% up or down range.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • bluelobsterbluelobster Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭

    Beta....enemy or friend?

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Long term alpha, short term beta

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:
    Long term alpha, short term beta

    Determine omega.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2018 3:47AM

    Is there one good reason why metals should be moving up at this time? Or continue trading in a 20% up or down range.

    Yes, and yes. The challenge is to ask the relevant questions and to decide how to react to the answers.

    One good reason why metals should be moving up - a likely stock market top.

    One good reason why metals should continue trading in a 20% up or down range - that range covers most of the standard deviation you would expect in most markets, so anything outside that range should be scrutinized hard for the causes.

    What's moving the metals right now? I suppose I'd call it "residual investment demand" in the case of gold. In the case of the white metals, I'd call it "industrial demand in addition to a small investment component".

    There is no panic into metals, and there won't be until there is wider disenchantment with the financial system in the US & Europe. I don't see a panic, but I expect somewhat of a panic in Europe at some point. I don't think a panic is required for the metals to gain steam, but keep in mind that the IMF already reclassified gold as a Tier 1 Asset backing SDRs some years ago.

    The kicker is that governments feel the need to consider gold, but heaven forbid if they allow their populations to consider metals as a proxy for wealth in any meaningful way. It's not exactly a "fake news" campaign, but it's always been a sleight-of-hand proposition when it comes to the definition of money. I think that the only problem that monetizing gold & silver would solve - would be to bring absolute accountability back into the system. That's why government and banks will both fight against it ever happening.

    Absolute accountability is not good news for governments and banks.

    The governments and banks really don't do us any favors by issuing fiat currencies and using fractional reserve banking to pump the economies. It feels good as long as gov.com can provide handouts in the form of welfare for the poor and corporations, but it's smoke & mirrors from Day One. Ultimately, it's thievery from the productive people who work and pay the taxes and the handouts are being allocated by people who have produced nothing on their own.

    Well, that's enough complaining on my part for the rest of the day. Stack on.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Stack on, easy to do because every major country, and many minor ones, issue gold and silver coins in vast numbers for investors and collectors. And countless private minters too.

    And there are ads and articles everywhere touting the metals as proxies for wealth. The world apoears awash in new and old PM objects of every description.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's estimated that in the entire history of, well, history, mankind has mined about 190,000 metric tons of gold. Best guess is that's approaching 80% of what is thought to be recoverable.

    According to Motley Fool earlier this year, about all of the recoverable gold on the planet will have been mined by 2040:
    https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/05/12/how-much-gold-is-left-in-the-world.aspx

    And then what? Maybe by then gold will have completely become obsolete. Bitcoins or their successors will be the norm. It's possible.

    Or maybe that's "enough". Maybe that will satisfy demand. Maybe new recovery techniques will make unrecoverable gold suddenly become "recoverable".

    But I doubt it.

    6.4 billion ounces of gold for the whole world, for all time.

    By comparison, Microsoft has 7.7 billion shares outstanding. Apple has 5 billion. Exxon has 4 billion. Ford has 4 billion. Johnson & Johnson, too.

    And there are over one trillion US dollars in circulation at any given time. That's physical, not including M3 and M6 and whatnot.

    So there might be a lot of private and old and new gold coins in the world. But they remain a drop in the bucket compared to just about anything else traded with value.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2018 3:33AM

    _Stack on, easy to do because every major country, and many minor ones, issue gold and silver coins in vast numbers for investors and collectors. And countless private minters too.

    And there are ads and articles everywhere touting the metals as proxies for wealth. The world apoears awash in new and old PM objects of every description._

    And that's the reason gold and silver are mere barbarous relics! End of discussion, right?

    Wrong!

    Money is a confidence game. It always has been. I have more confidence in precious metals as proxies for wealth than in paper documents as proxies for wealth.

    If you think that the world is awash in new and old PM objects of every description, what do you think about the world being totally inundated in paper and electronic proxies for wealth that are based on debt that can't begin to ever be paid back as promised?

    You pick your poison, I'll pick mine. I like my proxies for wealth to be real, to be accessible without going through a third party gatekeeper, and to have no counterparties.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,379 ✭✭✭✭✭

    10 month fitting bump.

  • This content has been removed.
  • This content has been removed.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @cohodk said:

    @VanHalen said:
    To wit: The bottom 70 percent of U.S. households have a net worth of less than $100,000, and they own less than 9 percent of the total U.S. wealth. US ECONOMY> ECONOMY STATS> KIMBERLY AMADEO>June 22, 2018

    Was there ever a time in America when those stats were markedly different?

    Wealth inequality has widened by a large margin over the past 25 years and continues unabated.

    It's not the economies fault if poor people have 50% more kids than wealthier people.

    wealth inequality has nothing to do with the number of kids and everything to do with greed.

    Not stupid spending of what little discretionary money they do earn..
    On consumer crappy goods and entertainment instead of investing it?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019 2:33PM

    The market is overbought and or oversold, therefore the price is massaged in already. The people who are speculating in the market with paper etc. are doing so at great peril. The underlying asset they are investing in isn't worth the price, or commensurate with the price the security is selling for. Then of course it's true 800/26000 is equal to about 3 percent. Perhaps we need to get used to the numbers being thrown around in the markets?

    I'd advise all of you to pay attention to me! I am the Son of an Ohio Garage Mechanic

  • ADGADG Posts: 438 ✭✭✭
  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think we're likely to hear more than a mention over the next few weeks...

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,356 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks ADG, that really made my head hurt and now I am nearly blind from trying to read that essay.

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:

    Money is a confidence game. It always has been. I have more confidence in precious metals as proxies for wealth than in paper documents as proxies for wealth.

    How can you say that? It’s not true and you don’t even really believe that...

    keceph `anah
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rawteam1 said:

    @jmski52 said:

    Money is a confidence game. It always has been. I have more confidence in precious metals as proxies for wealth than in paper documents as proxies for wealth.

    How can you say that? It’s not true and you don’t even really believe that...

    Ate there any billionaires, who became billionaires, because they owned gold?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    Ate there any billionaires, who became billionaires, because they owned gold?

    Not as many as there are former billionaires who wish they had owned gold.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,894 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @rawteam1 said:

    @jmski52 said:

    Money is a confidence game. It always has been. I have more confidence in precious metals as proxies for wealth than in paper documents as proxies for wealth.

    How can you say that? It’s not true and you don’t even really believe that...

    Ate there any billionaires, who became billionaires, because they owned gold?

    Probably not many. I have no desire to be a billionaire, I just want to be self sufficient and not just another sheep. Not much sleep lost over paper dollars and stocks here. Stack on!!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

Sign In or Register to comment.