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My fake Buffalos (NEW ONE ADDED in first post)
OnWithTheHunt
Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭
Took another look at my herd after reading thread about Buffnixx's 25-S. The 1916-S appears to me to be the "skinny Buffalo" referred to there, minus the die crack on feather, but the Buffalo's front leg appears to be a match. Knew the 1935 was counterfeit before I bought it. The rest were "finds" from bulk purchase searches, Believe they are contemporary fakes, but would like to know for sure.
Overlooked the last one here yesterday. Appears to be a 19!8 or 1919, which I don't see on Koinicker's list.
Proud recipient of the coveted "You Suck Award" (9/3/10).
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Thanks for sharing your herd. Below are my comments.
1) 1916-S. May or may not be real. It is not the well-known 1916-S with the obverse die crack at 9 o'clock. Further, the reverse looks different, notwithstanding the die crack through T1 in UNITED and S in CENTS, rather there appears to be a raised dot between E and C of the words FIVE CENTS; if so, this dot is not present on the 1916-S counterfeits (at least not on the handful that I own). Overall, I'm not yet convinced this piece is a counterfeit and I look forward to comments from other members on this one.
2) 1935. This is a great example which I am still 'hunting' for.
3) 1936. This is another great example from the same counterfeiter as the 1935 Buffalo nickel. The example I own had much more abraded and worn dies causing very soft, mushy details.
4) 1937. This looks like a classic cast counterfeit, albeit nicer than most I've seen.
Thanks for sharing. If anyone else has other die struck varieties I'd love to see them.
Neat collection.
The 1937 looks to be cast lead.
The 1935 and 1936 look die-struck (with very late die states).
It would be interesting to test the metallic alloy (via XRF) of these two.
The 1916-S looks genuine to me, although lower grade pieces are more difficult to be certain of, especially using photographs and not examining the coin in person. With the die cracks through the "S" of CENTS and "T" of UNITED, it looks like that die is about to split in two.
Its a common misconception that cast counterfeits were primarily made of lead. It is more likely the principal metal is tin, with lead, antimony and possibly other metals mixed in for hardening.
The 1916-S counterfeit nickels, along with the 1936 (and others), were usually made via a German silver alloy based on my XRF analysis on them.
True, although I would expect the lead content to be more than just a trace in the cast pieces. The lead would add some weight, and also help lower the melting point of the alloy for easier casting.
What percentage of lead showed up in your XRF tests ?
Lead was more than a trace. But it was usually not more than 40% of the alloy, and usually in the 10-30% range. Again, my tests on cast pieces were limited to about 40 pieces, and I think only one had a greater than 50% result.
Why would someone counterfeit these? Are they 1/2 leg?
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
En masse a nickel went a long way, especially during the depression! If your cost was 2c per coin in bulk quantity you would more than double your investment after expenses (machinery, fuel, time, etc.). You could buy a hotdog, etc. for a nickel - a nickel went a long way. Further, who would suspect a counterfeit nickel and give it a second glance(?) - maybe a quarter or larger denomination, but a nickel was a small loss and a small care to the merchant.
Some of the largest nickel counterfeiters (Henning was like the 3rd or 4th largest) made millions of counterfeit nickels!
The 1916-S looks genuine.
Sounds like a recipe for pewter.
Good thread, I would like to see a complete list of all the counterfeit buffalo nickels that have been discovered!!
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
As would I, BUFFNIXX.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I have shown this 1913 S T2 Buff before. I was expecting pcgs to categorize it as counterfeit, but instead offered an
86(Authenticity Unverifiable). I would like to have opinions.
JIm
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Go see my post in the 1925 counterfeit Buffalo thread where I have such a list. As far as I know it's the most complete list out there. I'm still waiting to see the 1928-S that has been reported as a counterfeit...
Now I need to look over my random herd of Buffs.... did not realize there were so many different counterfeits....Thanks...Cheers, RickO
Same here, I have lots of Buffs from detecting. Grabbed a handful and found this one, a 1936. Is this hair ribbon veering left behind the 6 s known counterfeit? Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
My 36 s buffs all have the ribbon behind the number 6.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I just want to agree...Twice
Steve
Geez! This is becoming a predicament. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
Have taken the liberty of copying Koinicker's list here.
@Koinicker said:
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I have assembled a limited list of die struck varieties - all of which appear to be transfer dies:
1916-S - obverse die crack at 9 o'clock
1927 - obverse dots in field below feathers
1930 - 40-degree counterclockwise die rotation
1935 - 2 legs
1936 - 2 feathers, 2 legs
(If the OPs 1925 is counterfeit I will add that to my list)
I don’t like that 1913-S, but there may be too much surface damage to make a call. The Authentication business is like that.
Cool!
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That's normal, Roy.
Pete
I agree. The wear pattern is all wrong, and the central area is way too soft. The mintmark looks wrong...a little too big. I would like to see a close up of it.
I think the obverse is genuine (or taken from a genuine San Francisco coin) It has that "look" from basining that shows a bit of "roll" off the rim especially in the lower right area.
The reverse looks to be from another year. A very high percentage (but not all) of Buffs minted in 1913 have clash marks. There was a serious problem that year with the feeder mechanism. This coin's reverse is free of any clash in the EPU area.
That makes me suspect the whole shebash is one big bunch of coin malarkey.
Pete
As many have said already it would be near impossible to judge these by these pics. But with that said I do believe they are all sketchy. IF I had to make the call by these pics I’d say they are all fake.
Good thread, I would like to see a complete list of all the counterfeit buffalo nickels that have been discovered!!> @jesbroken said:
This one looks good but the horn may have been enhanced or re-cut
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Here is one that appears to be unique......
And it appears to be a real coin, grades vf-xf and spent some amount of time in circulation.
Usually a counterfeit coin will be produced in quantity such as the 1916-s with the “skinny buffalo” was.
The 1922 shown here appears to be unique. Anyone ever see another?
Rarer than the 1913 liberty head nickel if real! Were there not 1922 dies available for nickel production??
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
First time I ever saw that coin. Looks real, but I don't think any dies were prepared for 1922 in Philadelphia. The coin itself shows a clash on EPU. Much more study needs to be made. I'm not saying it's genuine....just that nothing stands out at the moment.
Where did you find it?
Pete