How prolific was Robert Coulton Davis?

Zoins

I just came across Robert Coulton Davis while looking into the 1866 No Motto Dollar. What other major rarities did he have? What do you think of him as a collector?

This PCGS article is interesting:

Davis must have been a fun guy. He could justify owning patterns and mules, but was a whistle-blower regarding the second-strike fantasy 1804 Draped Bust, Heraldic Eagle silver dollar coins. He assisted the Mint in recovering three of the second issue "restrikes" of this notorious coin. How anyone can consider some of these to be restrikes, when it is realized the earliest pieces were produced in 1834, is beyond me.

https://www.pcgs.com/news/Fantasy-Coins-Unofficial-But-Still-Valuable

Here's some info on the 1866 No Motto dollar:

The famous 1866 "No Motto" dollar. This is a fantasy coin, deliberately struck for Robert Coulton Davis probably circa 1869 or in the early 1870s.

http://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/j540p605.html

I found some photos of him on E-Sylum:

http://www.coinbooks.org/v21/esylum_v21n09a15.html

And his collection on NNP in the William F. Johnson sale:

https://archive.org/details/catalogueofcolle00newy_4/page/n0

And finally his grave marker:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/105699892/robert-coulton-davis

RogerB

RE: "The famous 1866 "No Motto" dollar. This is a fantasy coin, deliberately struck for Robert Coulton Davis probably circa 1869 or in the early 1870s."
What's the source of the above comment?

Davis' collection of pattern and experimental pieces was so well regarded that the US Mint collection used it as a guide to pieces the Mint Cabinet should contain.

Zoins

@RogerB said:
RE: "The famous 1866 "No Motto" dollar. This is a fantasy coin, deliberately struck for Robert Coulton Davis probably circa 1869 or in the early 1870s."
What's the source of the above comment?

It's from USPatterns.com, specifically the link immediately below the quote.

Davis' collection of pattern and experimental pieces was so well regarded that the US Mint collection used it as a guide to pieces the Mint Cabinet should contain.

Nice! Does the US Mint maintain a Cabinet today?

Regulated

@Zoins said:

Nice! Does the US Mint maintain a Cabinet today?

The Mint cabinet became the core of the Smithsonian's numismatic collection.

Regulated

Robert Coulton Davis acquired this hub trial for the American Congress Fugio pattern some time in the mid-1800s:

Newman called it a 19th-century fantasy piece - one wonders whether the Davis pedigree had something to do with the mis-attribution.

As it turns out, it was made using an earlier state of the hub than was used to create the American Congress dies, and appears to be struck on a Connecticut copper planchet (it has the typical planchet voids of a CT and a weighs 144-grains), which is exactly what would have been laying around at the Connecticut Mint when Abel Buell was making the dies in early 1787. It also appears to have been used as the model for the Bushnell Fugio fantasies, which were made in 1859 - a few years before we believe that the first American Congress pattern was discovered.

Zoins

That is an awesome piece @Regulated. Nice history to go with it too!

RogerB

The quote is not given a source on the website. Without more information it's of very limited utility.

The Smithsonian had a very respectable collection of coins before the US Mint Cabinet was acquired in 1923. The Mint's early advantage was in pulling foreign and later US coins from deposits, and in acquiring pieces direct from the Annual Assay and Medal Department.

Zoins

@RogerB said:
The quote is not given a source on the website. Without more information it's of very limited utility.

The Smithsonian had a very respectable collection of coins before the US Mint Cabinet was acquired in 1923. The Mint's early advantage was in pulling foreign and later US coins from deposits, and in acquiring pieces direct from the Annual Assay and Medal Department.

Ask @MrEureka, who runs the site

Regulated

I'd love to know what he's using as a tie tack in the second picture:

MrEureka

Regarding the 1866:

http://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/j540p605.html

Saul gets all the credit!

MrEureka

@Regulated said:
I'd love to know what he's using as a tie tack in the second picture:

It looks like a 1877 pattern 50C with Defiant Eagle reverse, but maybe too small.

Zoins

@MrEureka said:

@Regulated said:
I'd love to know what he's using as a tie tack in the second picture:

It looks like a 1877 pattern 50C with Defiant Eagle reverse, but maybe too small.

That’s cool. Would be great to wear these days. Imagine if @tradedollarnut had one with one of his coins?

MrEureka

Or maybe an Akragas Decadrachm???

Regulated

@MrEureka said:

It looks like a 1877 pattern 50C with Defiant Eagle reverse, but maybe too small.

It was the unique 1877 pattern 25c Defiant Eagle.

Zoins

@Regulated said:

@MrEureka said:

It looks like a 1877 pattern 50C with Defiant Eagle reverse, but maybe too small.

It was the unique 1877 pattern 25c Defiant Eagle.

I have an idea for you

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

He surly was winning in the facial hair department...a man can think his way out of just about anything with that much chin hair to stroke during decision time

MrEureka

It looks like the coin is not perfectly round...

Namvet69

It's gotta be a gold coin. Do you think that neck tie is a Windsor knot or an ascot? Peace Roy

ricko

'Not by the hair on my chinny chin chin'.... Right out of 'The Three Little Pigs'...Cheers, RickO

SiriusBlack

Probably not gold, the collodion process used back then had the effect of changing yellow colors much darker, towards black in photographs.

CaptHenway

I agree with Andy that it is probably an ancient coin, probably on a stickpin rather than a tie tac.

Mark

Here is a Breen quote from the E-Sylum: "Davis was a pharmacist. Walter Breen described him as drug dealer to the Mint. Breen said that Davis gave laudanum to Mint workers in exchange for favors." This quote is followed by "This leads me to my follow-up question. What was Breen's source for this information? I did a Google search for Davis and found a dozen reports that repeat Breen's accusation. However, none of them were written before Breen's statement. Is there a published report on Davis that predates Breen?" (http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v15n10a08.html)

I wonder if anyone found one because I sure can't. Or is this another case of Breen making up an interesting story?

denga

It is quite possible that Davis supplied laudanum (the well-known 19th century
pain killer) to Mint officers and employees. It was all quite legal and Davis may
or may not have received access to pattern coins as early as the 1850s.

By the 1870s he did have open access to pattern coins and his collection was
used by Mint officials to determine what had been made and missing from the
Mint holdings.

There is even a letter of December 22, 1877, from Mint Director H.R. Linderman
to Philadelphia Mint Superintendent James Pollock, ordering that Davis be per-
mitted to obtain copies of the patterns prepared by William Barber and George
Morgan for the resumption of dollar coinage in March 1878.

Coinosaurus

@Mark said:
Here is a Breen quote from the E-Sylum: "Davis was a pharmacist. Walter Breen described him as drug dealer to the Mint. Breen said that Davis gave laudanum to Mint workers in exchange for favors." This quote is followed by "This leads me to my follow-up question. What was Breen's source for this information? I did a Google search for Davis and found a dozen reports that repeat Breen's accusation. However, none of them were written before Breen's statement. Is there a published report on Davis that predates Breen?" (http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v15n10a08.html)

I wonder if anyone found one because I sure can't. Or is this another case of Breen making up an interesting story?

Quite possibly. The difficulty with such assertions is that you have to prove a negative in order to refute Breen. Even if you transcribe every piece of U.S. Mint paper in the national archives, someone could still say that Breen learned it from some other source. If I was writing about R.C. Davis I might say that "Breen said this, but there is no original source."

Regulated

20th Century numismatics is full of great stories - hopefully 21st century numismatics will be remembered for decent research.

Zoins

@Regulated said:
20th Century numismatics is full of great stories - hopefully 21st century numismatics will be remembered for decent research.

I hope so as well. You're definitely helping with that!

Regulated

I think it'll be a team effort.

Zoins

@Regulated said:
I think it'll be a team effort.

Of course it will. My statement wasn’t meant to exclude others, but to appreciate the research you are doing.

StrikeOutXXX

From American journal of numismatics, and bulletin of American numismatic and archeological societies, Volumes 22-24

2nd one from the NY Times - August 26th, 1888

Those are mentioned here:
http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v15n11a09.html

Where there is a blurb from Dave Bowers:
Dave Bowers writes:

The Breen tale about R.C. Davis giving drugs to Mint officials is a classic Breenism. In the 1870s and 1880s anyone at the Mint or anywhere else could have bought opium at a drugstore without prescription. It was not until the 1906 Pure Food and Drugs Act (effective January 1, 1907) that narcotics were restricted. Mrs. Winslow's Soothing Syrup for babies, for example, popular in the 19th century, had opium as a base and was available over the counter.

And... just for fun, here is:
Catalogue of the Collection of Coins, Medals, Tokens and Currency Formerly Owned By the Late Robert Coulton Davis, Ph.G., Of Philadelphia, Pa. Now Owned By A Private Gentleman.

Auction Date: 1/24/1890
https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/auctionlots?AucCoId=26&AuctionId=513827

The thing I find quite amazing as you search the NNP - nearly every auction of a major collection has an item that traces back to that 1890 auction of RCD, so I'd put my vote in the yea - he was quite prolific column.

CaptHenway

It is unfortunate that Breen seldom sourced his comments. I am sure that he heard many interesting and true stories from the old-timers in the hobby, but he did not source them.
For example, in my Thomas Elder catalogue I relate a story about what an irascible person Elder could be, and described an unfortunate incident that occurred at an auction sale. The story was told to me by Abe Kosoff, who was present at the incident which happened long before I was born. The story is credible because it is sourced.
Breen did not make everything up. He did make some stuff up. The question is, which?

RogerB

I came across a letter in which the Chief Coiner referred a collector's pattern piece question to Davis.

RE: "There is even a letter of December 22, 1877, from Mint Director H.R. Linderman to Philadelphia Mint Superintendent James Pollock, ordering that Davis be permitted to obtain copies of the patterns prepared by William Barber and George
Morgan for the resumption of dollar coinage in March 1878."

To expand slightly on this, additional documents indicate that the Barber and Morgan pattern pieces were widely distributed among collectors and various Mint/Treasury officials. Most were standard silver, but Superintendent Pollock was ordered to supply copper examples for a short time. Copper pieces were available for a small coining charge; silver pieces cost $1.07 each + postage.